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Lot o' Hotpot: Three Travellers
As a frequent traveller to Shanghai, I am a loyal customer to the Xiangyang "fashion market". I think I am getting pretty good prices on stuff, yet am still always left with the feeling of being ripped off. What kind of "inside guide" could you give me about prices? -- CB, UK
First things first -- if you're in Shanghai, go now. Right now. Put down the water bottle and shimmy on down to the market -- because when the weather outside is frightful, the prices become so delightful. The poor schmoes in the market just want to shut up shop and get the hell home. The prices drop with the temperature and it's about 0°C outside as we speak.
Generally speaking, the vast majority of shoppers there will get ripped off. Sure, every tourist says they are especially good at haggling, and people feel they got a good deal -- but they got ripped off. The sellers are expert actors. Local Shanghainese people will get a tenth of the price that foreigners will. Which leads us to our most crucial tip. Always take a local with you. This will always lead to the sellers nagging your friend to help them raise the price for the rich foreigner, but you'll get better deals. Especially if it's a weekday.
The trick most people use and the one which everyone should is: the walk-away. Once you've named your price and they are getting slightly lower, shake your head, walk away and browse the stall a few feet down. More often than not, they'll cave and shout you your price.
Some people religously stick to going for two thirds of the original price, and some people even go for one fifth. But the price given changes according to the seller, the weather and amount of customers, just as you'd guess.
So it might be best to give a rough guide to prices you "should" pay, bearing in mind that the money will probably mean more to them than to you, and arguing over 5 or 10RMB is probably a waste of your time.
Men's office/casual shirts: 35RMB is a decent price for each shirt. But you'll need the weather and a local on your side. 50RMB is a respectable price.
Leather gloves: less than 40RMB.
"Pashminas", "Cashmere" scarves etc: less than 20 - 30RMB each.
Watches: Around the 80RMB mark is a good price to pay if the watch is a basic Rolex. They are usually pretty tough about watches though so you'll do well if you get below 100RMB. And those fake "unique" branded watches do actually last for a long time. For other higher end brands and styles you're looking at 200 - 250RMB.
Women's bags: Your aim is not to pay more than 100RMB per bag. The old styles and models of "designer brands" should be less than 75RMB each. Tucked around the back of the market are crate-type-storage-rooms which are 8 foot tall metal boxes. If you can find them, they have the largest and most up-to-date selection of designer bags, sunglasses and watches, and fair(ish) prices. The newest releases of styles and brands will be upwards of around 150 - 200RMB for medium-sized handbags.
About following people: Take the advice on the walls and do not leave the market. It might be a bit of fun to explore some back alleys and you might even be treated to a walk through a family dinner in order to reach your grotto of shoes, and this is China, so you're most likely going to be safe -- but it's not worth the risk -- or the walk.
Get there soon, as the market is living on borrowed time. Last year the police began increasing their token "raids" on the market and confiscating goods, and the market is set to close in May 2006. This was a mere inevitability after Beijing's equivalent, the Silk Alley, closed in January.
If you are getting sick and tired of being followed and hounded and harassed: Don't say "No/No thank you". Just say nothing. In our experience here, simply looking forward and not replying works in making them forget you and move on to find the next sap. We guarantee it.
And if you really can't get one vendor to drop their price? Turn around and try the next guy.
Xiangyang market is on Xiangyang Lu / Huaihai Zhong Lu, 襄阳路近淮海路, opens around 9am closes around 8pm, later in the summer.
Also on Shanghaiist:
Xiangyang Market crackdown
Related:
Shanghai Expat's on-going list of "fair prices".
Need answers? Advice? Ask Shanghaiist! Email ask( @ )shanghaiist.com.
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As stated above, it's really a rough guide.
What kind of prices have our readers been getting recently for other items not listed?
Sound advice. I can vouch for the walk away and the shitty-weather tactic. Wish I had known earlier about following those street solicitors. Was cheated 275 bucks(yes, US dollars) for a fake purse and a wallet for my now ex. And that was after being led through a maze of private residences and narrow alleyways. We were completely disoriented. Needless to say, a potentially dangerous situation indeed.
Two fifths the original price is what my local relatives usually pay. They tend to deal with nonnative Shanghainese vendors(ones with rural accents) because native Shanghainese pride themselves as being more cunning. My relatives aren't polite to the vendors either, often criticizing the quality of the goods(even if there isn't anything wrong with them) to drive the price even lower.
Watch out for bait and switch, and inspect everything that you purchase. Displayed items are not necessarily identical to what you get in the prewrapped packages, especially when it comes to fabric quality and colors on shirts and polos. On the note of polos, when I purchased white polos, the dye used was not a true white and the polo was a light purple under direct sunlight. They might have since changed the dye or took out the red sock from the dyeing machine.
Three Markets in Shanghai
http://spaces.msn.com/members/sevencastles/Blog/cns!1psdFdW3uWZp-A3c-JeidiRg!1021.entry
Oh yes, that's a good tip I forgot: To take the clothes/product out of the wrapper before buying, which sounds obvious, but usually you see something hanging up, you ask for your size and then they bring you one as if it was "wrapped as new".
Always take it out to check for minor stains etc.
Too bad the Market has been under a law enforcement crackdown for a week. I'm told that business should resume as usual around Tuesday Dec.12th.
Xiangyang has to be the free-ist free market existing in China at the moment. definitely get down there and check it out.
And now some pricing advice basic Puma branded trainers Y80-100.
Here's a related story:
Police raid pirate nest
Yang Lifei
2005-12-10 Beijing Time
SHANGHAI police confiscated suspected counterfeit clothing bearing the logos of top fashion brands and questioned a group of foreign customers in a raid at a residential building near the city's Xiangyang Market yesterday.
The crackdown followed a tip from the state intellectual property investigators who were in town for three days as part of a nationwide campaign against pirated goods.
Authorities were still totalling up the value of the confiscated goods late yesterday. It was unclear if any arrests were made in the sweep.
The raid took place at 10:30am yesterday at a four-story residential building on the downtown Nanchang Road, around the corner from the popular street market.
No goods were seized at the market itself, but officers said they encountered many customers looking at a wide variety of products in the residential building.
Investigators found clothing, shoes and accessories such as wallets and watches, all bearing labels of famous brands including Louis Vuitton, Chanel and Rolex, piled up in five rooms on the first and second floors.
The shoppers were released after police explained the reason for the sweep. Among the group were about 10 foreigners from countries including Japan, the United Kingdom, Canada and Austria.
"I was taken here by peddlers who grabbed me by the arm," said a UK national who refused to give his name. "I met them while shopping at the market."
The Xiangyang Market is also where two officials from the State Council's Intellectual Property Supervision Team picked up the trail that eventually led to the underground sales outlet.
"They were stopped by touts and accompanied them pretending to be interested in making a large purchase," said He Hua, vice director of the State Intellectual Property Bureau. "The residence turned out to be a place used to sell and stock fake products."
He and his 14 colleagues arrived in Shanghai on Tuesday and spent three days researching the city's efforts to battle counterfeit goods.
"Shanghai government has taken proper measures to crack down on phony products; however, some problems remain," He said.
Prior to yesterday's raid, the state team inspected the Westgate Mall on Nanjing Road and Metro City in Xujiahui.
"The results there were satisfactory," said Xu Zhanglin, vice director of the Shanghai Intellectual Property Bureau. "It is safe to say we have banned counterfeit products from entering mainstream shopping centers."
Liu Minhong, an official with the Shanghai Intellectual Property Bureau, said there are almost no counterfeit goods at Xiangyang Market and that's why touts are prowling for customers on nearby streets.
It's simply untrue that foreigners cannot get good prices on their own at Xiangyang Market. What's most important, though, is having a good sense of what things are worth. Locals are definitely more likely to have that, but sometimes even locals are pretty clueless. Your list helps, but there's always going to be something that catches your eye that's not on the list. If you have no idea what it should cost, you stand to lose a lot in the transaction.
Bottom line: the vendors are, first and foremost, business people. They will do their best to get the easy money by ripping off the foreigners when they can, but they're also willing to give foreigners a decent price when it's obvious that the foreigners know what stuff is worth.
For whatever it's worth, the market is definitely back to normal now. The only difference I noticed was that the first prices seemed to be incredibly high compared to what they would normally be. (I tried to buy to "Lacoste" shirts, and the guy's first price was 650.) Maybe they are trying to make up for the money they lost the last few days?
I completely agree, John, which is why I stressed it was a rough guide - and then made queries as to what other people's ideas were.
So... would you actually like to mention some prices on items not on the list???