We love Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu

Dude, lighten up, it's too early in the morning.

wait...this whole thread is like a parody, right?

She looks cool and she kicks ass. Excellent choice by the Chinese government.

What is going on with her hair? It looks like a cross between a faux-hawk and a femullett.

I think we all know perfectly well the horrible human rights record China has, it's debateable whether it actually is worse or better than the US's.

But I agree with Jian Yu, the US has to stop meddling with Chinese issues, and focus their energy on US-related issues, like Gitmo Bay.

Having said that, China does still have a long way to go with social liberties.

splitting hairs i would have to quibble with what it means to "meddle." the US does this every year, and China is not the only country that receives some forms of censure for human rights abuses. Much of this really boils down to a formality--a he said she said type of thing. This is just what governments do to make it seem as if they're busy on the human rights front. THe words belie the fact that the real work on human rights is often done by NGOs and other organizations--the ones that mount campaigns, that keep track of what's happening.

The Chiense peopel that suffer from human rights abuses--take the housing rights folks that i talked to and posted about in august of last year--they believe in the universality of human rights. They want attention, that's why they pose in front of teh western press whenever they get a camera pointed their way. The "non-interference" policy is one formulated by the Party-state and not by the victims of human rights abuses, i think that this is a point we ought to keep in mind. I am an American, i know about the human rights abuses that America has perpetrated in its history. But perhaps i ought to reiterate the obvious point that many people would rather choose to live in teh US than in China. There are reaons why people like my father left China/Taiwan for the US--academic and intellectual freedom, which is part of our quality of life. Gitmo bay human rights abuses are different from the human rights abuses that affect normal US citizens. The US would only be a real hypocrite if it denied or did not pay any attention to Gitmo bay--but it doesn't. Americans are more blind to the poverty and uncertainty of america's working poor, which is much less "hot" in our media, than they are to Gitmo bay or other higher profile news stories. I wish there were a moral calculus that one could employ to weigh all these different types of human rights violations, but there isn't--and thus i find it hard to make judgments on these things beyond specific cases.

You can tell Americans to shut up about China's human rights abuses--or perhaps find a more "delicate" or nuanced way of saying the same thing--but if its' a choice between blunt statements and silence, i would prefer the former.

Well, instead of asking why the Americans are so preachy and critical, the Chinese ought to engage in some self-reflection on how they take criticism. (a lesson that many only learn in therapy).

It's not as if the only reason that the Chinese reject human rights criticism is the preachy tone of warmongering Americans. Just because the Americans are making war now and have committed human rights violations in the past isn't, ipso facto, reason to reject the criticism. If that criticism is largely based on factual evidence and research, then perhaps there is something to be learned and gained from it.

If Zimbabwe came out with a report about China's human rights, China would have the same reaction. And then China would say "look at you guys, esp. you Mugabe, what right do you have to talk?" And if the UK came out with a report, same deal. If Luxembourg's gov't passed a resolution censuring China, what would China say--"hey you guys are OK, we can accept criticism from you guys."

The point is, of course, that China categorically rejects human rights criticism. And this is a legacy of a suspicion and distrust of foreign powers--a mantlepiece of the CCP ideology. How long must this last? If we take the ability to accept criticism without it inflicting undue damange onto the ego as a sign of individual maturation, why not make it a principle by which nations conduct themselves?

It is not China, esp. those in CHina suffering from human rights violations, that are aggrieved. I think some of them would welcome more international attention on the issues that affect them. It really depends on who you talk to--certainly the Shanghainese kids bouncing to the beats at Bon Bon don't care, or might feel aggrieved. But the people that i interviewed about housing told me flat out: the problem with China is the CCP. These are people, in their 40s and above, that grew up in China.

America might seem oblivious to criticism--it went on with a war despite the opposition of a good chunk of our population plus most of the world. A travesty, yes, but don't forget that the culture of dissent in America, waxes and wanes but never disappears. Some of the most vociferous and eloquent critics of American policy are americans.
My pride in the US is not based on the rejection of relevant criticisms or dismising someone because they are preachy--it's based on the very fact that in our best moments, we have the ability to be self-critical--more interested in truth than in lies.

The spokeswoman's position does not represent the position of Chinese people under all circumstances and for all time. I think there will be a day when China can accept criticism from other nations, b/c it is a member of the community of nations, it is a UN member, and we live in a globalized world where information has no borders.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Every nation is flawed. But, Nick, you can't make a statement like 'China has a bad human rights record but no worse than the USA's' with a straight face. If you want to trot out Iraq as America's centerpiece of human rights violation, then lets look at T-bet and the cultural (and real) genocide that's gone on there over the last 50 years. In Iraq we are attempting at least to instill a government that will protect basic values (admittedly ruthlessly, but then a lighter touch would definately not work). Executions, basic liberties, internet freedom . . . China is many degrees worse than the US. Tapping of phone lines? Probably every e-mail you send gets routed across somebody else's computer in this country. So you'd rather live in China than America? Wait until the Chinese authorities pop our comfortable little expat bubbles and all the extra freedoms we enjoy disappear - say when China hits its first major road bump and the authorities need someone to blame (and all the Japanese have decided they don't need this sh-t anymore).
On American foreign policy - yes it sucks, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But for all its posturing, if China was in America's position the Red army would have overrun every country in the Eastern hemisphere that once pledged fealty to China. America's power keeps China in check. Hell, when the book 1452 came out China probably would have used this excuse to go take back its 'ancient and inviolable colonies' in the New World. American power keeps China out of Taiwan, NK (heavily supported by China) out of SK, and all those little island disputes flaring into major regional conflicts. We've toppled a few repressive governments in recent years, sure. Maybe unwarranted - I don't agree with what the USA did, certainly. But it's not like Saddam and the Taliban were giving out ice-cream to their citizens and held dance parties every Friday.
America does have flaws. Especially Republicans, who are awful and basically the same breed of folks that in other times and countries supported Mussolini and China's Communist Party, but at least half the population is of a more reasonable bent - and occasionally (just not recently) they get to make policy too.

I LOVE IT I LOVE IT I LOVE IT!

"if you want to trot out Iraq as America's centerpiece of human rights violation, then lets look at T-bet and the cultural (and real) genocide that's gone on there over the last 50 years."

Let's not ry to compare, contrast and analyse which one is worse. I am saying China's record is no worse than the US. And many other western countries.

How long have spent in Tibet out of interest? The UK and America (more so) have a history of 100s of years of SLAVERY. The US went to Vietnam and slaughtered innocent people. Once you reach these levels, in my opinion, you become as bad as everyone else no matter what they do. In my opinion.

It is amazing to see how quickly people forget the past. If you compare the States with China from ’49 onwards, how can you honestly say that China is no worse than the US? I won’t go into the details of the famines, purges, genocide, labor camps, and yes the wars that China has been involved in (they invaded Vietnam as well btw and had a 10year war with them). How can you even make a comparison between the two countries’ HR record?

It amazes me to see how easily we expats fall into a sense of complacency- as Alec put it the Expat bubble. Seems awfully like the same hubris exhibited by the first round of foreigners who lived in Shanghai beginning of the last century before they got the boot.

I hear disgruntled Americans complain about the War (great work of idiocy), the US Press (at its lowest ebb at the moment), torture, and the restrictions on freedom – all of which are major concerns. But when they begin comparing these issues to China and say ‘well we’re just as bad!’ it as if they have lost all sense of scale entirely. And it’s not about who is better than the other – this isn’t the World Cup or any other game for that matter! China’s problems must be seen in context of China’s past and its reality today – along with global norms. This is true of the States as well.

Stop comparing apples and watermelons (yeah, not oranges).

Actually, haman rights abuses in America extend far, far beyond just the above mentioned, with Latin America.