No dogs or Chinese allowed ... at Studio 78?

nanheyangrouchuan:

"So chinese people not valuing each others' lives would be a good place to start fixing up the society."

First of all, it's not clear how much in the way of brains or skill they have. In fairness and to give due credit, sometimes they'll surprise to the upside and things have improved by leaps and bounds but the level of inconsistency that exists here would be beyond belief had I not experienced it myself on countless occasions. This introduces an often unacceptable risk factor when dealing with the devil you don't know here. Hence the guanxi thing.

Seconly, there's 1.3 billion of them out there so the laws of supply and demand should dictate that their lives won't be worth very much.

Posted by rence:

After all chinese people are proably the most racist people in the world. chinese discriminate against everybody, and most of all, chinese people LOOOOVE to discriminate against themselves.

I agree. Rich local vs. poor or peasant local.

I once met a very rich girl daughter of a very high governmnt official in Shanghai. She was married having an affair with a very rich landowner from Europe.

She ended the relationship one day. Not because it was immoral to be in an affair but because it would be a disgrace to her family if she left her husband for a landowner.

"But, I am a very rich man," he told her.

"yes, but at the end of the day you are a farmer." she responded.

So much for racist between rich chinese and chinese farmer...

Bad service by chinese staff in expat bars seems to go along with the bad service I've seen chinese people get in other places. "white face" always seems to get better treatment, even if they don't expect it or don't want it. One of my experiences was on a minibus (hey's its cheap and fast) when the driver booted an old man out of a seat for me. I didn't want his seat but everyone insisted I take it and I ended up being gently shoved/carried/nudged into this old guy's seat.

So chinese people not valuing each others' lives would be a good place to start fixing up the society.

not to beat a dead horse...but..

Is it just me or is part of the issue the translation of foreigner vs. "lao wai?"

I think on the surface, they sound the same, but if you look closely, there is a difference.

based on my experience, the chinese definition of a "lao wai" is someone who is basically a caucasoid or negroid. I don't think ANY mongoloids fit the bill. i.e., if you are japanese or korean, you aren't considered a "lao wai" in china.

foreigner to me means someone who is not native to china....so in my book, i know it's a bit nit picky, peijin, you are a foreigner, but you aren't a "lao wai." so if their policy was for only "lao wais" and friends of the manager, then I think he was being consistent to his policy by not giving you free drinks.

Furthermore, I think the policy is fine. That's right, I said it. After all chinese people are proably the most racist people in the world. chinese discriminate against everybody, and most of all, chinese people LOOOOVE to discriminate against themselves. so the policy seems to be pretty consistent with everything else going on in china. I don't like to judge whether it is right or wrong....maybe I watched a little to much TNG growing up. I just see it as a fact of life in china, it's like cutting in line, snapping your fingers at the service, burping in public; rude and wrong in some other countries, but acceptable in china. at least they come out and say it to your face. not like some places in the states where they just make stuff up like..."we're out of alcohol" I don't find it a particularly smart policy, but understandable given the status quo.

and for those of you who get your ass kicked at babyface or guandii, my advice is stop going there...what's the bfd? There are plenty of bars and clubs out there that cater to "lao wais", why go to the one or two bars where you know "lao wais" aren't that welcome. and unlike peijin, I've been to babyface and guandii enough times, and I am pretty confident if you are getting your ass kicked, the guards will stand idly by regardless of your race.

creepy crawly:

first of all, i received a message from people affiliated (past tense) with 78 and they said that this "policy" had something to do with the World Cup--but nonetheless, as this suggests, this policy did exist. I wish it were just a matter of a bad bartender being lazy, but somehow the evidence suggests otherwise. Maybe you ought to read some of the things that i and others have written, as I consider that information critical to understanding what happened. It is not definitive proof, but suggests that your hypothesis might not be the only one worth considering.

I really don't think your justified in calling this a whine. I wrote about something that happened to me. I don't do this kind of thing often, because most of the time, this kind of thing doesn't happen often. So what makes this a "whine?" It's a whine because i don't care about white people, right? Wrong. I don't know what happens to white people at Babyface, in part b/c I never go there. But you'd have to chalk that up to my ignorance, and not b/c I purposely ignore what "racism" i run into at Studio 78. This is not a study of racism in Shanghai. This is a record of what happened to a couple of people on one night in China.

"when this happens you all fade into the crowd, saving it up to bitch and moan on a website"

Listen, I called up the damn establishment. I don't just "bitch and moan" on a website. I write for this website, and i thought i would share this. Would you rather have me keep this to myself? And why? Does this issue not deserve to be

talked about b/c it's not important? The reason why this blog and this site exists is because we believe that the internet is a place where we can talk about things; and that means more than just bitch and moan. Please don't think that i think thi ia big deal: the war in Iraq, the iSraeli-palestinian issue, anything is more impt than this--but i did put it out there for what it's worth.

Please don't label me or anyone else on this site as someone who just "fades into the crowd"--you better damn well know who I am before you make a statement like that. I have used my real name and identity on the internet to talk about this, and don't take that lightly. People who are content to "fade into the crowd" don't do this kind of thing. They don't bother talking, they restrain themselves. I 've gone on 2 forums, i've been on a podcast, and I've talked to the management of the bar in question. I'm not making a crusade out of this--like you said, it's not the most impt issue in the world. BUt i'll be damned if you accuse me or anyone on this site of being some kind of fade into the crowd coward. Where do you get off making assumptions about my character like that? If you experienced racism or any kind of bad treatment at Babyface, and care to write about it and provide as much reliable and objective information about it, and if through my judgment i find that what you have to say is believable, then by god I'll speak my mind about it. But of course, you haven't given anyone me or anyone else here a fair chance. I'm sorry i haven't stood up for justice at Babyface, but honestly I can't stand being there so i wouldn't know what happens there.

I don't know who Caed or what magazine you're referring to, but we would be interested in knowing. Read the original post, and tell me what exactly constitutes the "bitch and moan" part of it.

I don't get it: i write one thing on a blog that i regularly contribute to and i'm accused of bitching and moaning. Did you notice that I said in the post that I'm not even terribly angry about it? I've spent more energy trying to defend myself from people and their completely inane remarks than i have on actually analyzing what happened over at Studio 78.

A couple of New Year's back at Windows Jing An some local people in front of me got turned away. I heard the whole thing. They told them it was limited tickets and they would favour foreigners as they spend more on drinks. It didn't make sense as I seem to remember it being one expensive ticket with the drinks included. Could be wrong there.

I walked of course. It was all local staff on the door at that moment too.

You guys are making way too much of this issue...Maybe not.

But knowing the people that run Studio 78, I would say the blame rests squarely on the Chinese bartenders shoulders...No matter how well you train the staff, if the big boss is out of the room (and I am certain that female "foreign bartender" was not hired for her management skills) the Chinese staff gets as lazy as possible...Add that to the fact that they think they have some special status as bartenders and you get some spectactularly lazy self hating Chinese...I wouldn't worry about it, they will grow out of it or cover it up so you dont see it later in life...

I really don't have any sympathy for your whining, because people in this city don't care...If you really care aabout racism, go down to Guandii or Babyface and wait till some foreigner gets his head kicked in, then go to the police station as a witness and get the Chinese responsible put away...

Oh wait, when these things happen you all just fade into the crowd, saving it up to bitch and moan on a website...

No one really has the courage to stand up to real violent a***holes in this city... If they did Caed wouldn't own a magazine...

hdp:

do you have to try to be a moron, or does it just come naturally? I understand that if you run a bar, that you want to make money--and maybe you want to target a certain clientele--but look, either you condone a bar openly telling someone they can't be served, or you don't--it's that simple. If you have any balls, state for the record if you think what happened to me was right or wrong, morally and ethically correct, or economically sound (and morals be damned).

I believe that it is possible to make money running a bar without discriminating against people. You make it sound as if bars are going bankrupt because they're overrun by Chinese people who "suck" tea all night, which is just not true.

I would love for people to buy heaps of drinks, but look, not everyone is made out of money in this city. The World Cup exacerbates the situation at bars, this I understand, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to refuse someone just based on the way that I look. As far as your Babyface issue, I welcome an email from you detailing what happened to you, and why. However, I assume that before you did so, you would be sure that what happened was somehow related to "discrimination" and not just something unfortunate. You said "I white guy," well, that's not proof in itself that you were discriminated against for whatever reason. That just proves that you are white and that something bad happened to you at the bar--which is not prima facie evidence for a connection between the one fact and the other. But if indeed, there is a connection between the two, you know my email and you know that you can leave comments on this thread. We'd be interested in hearing the other side.

By the way, if i were a bar owner and i was interested in getting people to drink, i might try

not offering small glasses of beer for 40 or 45 RMB. Rents are expensive in this city, but I'd like for people to do more than "suck tea" all night. THis would make my bar look rather boring.

If I ran a bar, I'd want patrons who buy heaps of drinks, not sit in a corner sucking a cup of tea all night while playing dice games. And shanghaiasskikr ... I'm sure the bar managers of Shanghai are quivering in their boots.

Anyway, what about Babyface and its policy of making white people very uncomfortable, even doing nothing when I white guy has his head split open after being attacked by a mob inside the bar.

I was told by someone more familiar with the inner workings of Studio 78 that the bar had recently changed its policy, and that this was due to the World Cup--they were afraid of freeloaders sitting during the game. I was also told that the Chinese bartender that i talked to was actually the manager--though he looked a bit youngish--and this leads me to conclude that the establishment might have made a more conscious effort to shoo me away than i had previously thought.

Owen: i had thought, too, that this was just bad service, but even when i think about it that way, i still can't justify them telling me in so outright a way that this activity was only for foreigners. That just ain't right no matter how you square it. That's not fair to anyone, because as Helen said, how much you drink depends on how much you make and not who you are. And in my case, as I said before, there is a strange irony in the fact that I am lumped in with the Chinese--not that i mind being called 'Chinese,' b/c i, to a large extent, identify myself as one--but i do so because of my heritage, my blood, my culture, and not because of my drinking habits. And because if they are going to say "FOREIGNER ONLY" that's fine with me as long as they are logically consistent--but by refusing me even though technically I am a foreigner means that they have not acted consistently with the rules that they themselves stipulated. My asking for a drink was less about freeloading ( i could have really cared less if i had a beer at that moment or not) but about seeing what their policy was.

In any case, I am pretty sure that something was rotten in Studio 78, but i cannot verify, without a shadow of a doubt, how this policy was laid down, and if, as they say, it was because the World Cup or other reasons. I have also accepted their apology, so I'm not going to attack them (not that i did in the first place). I am just trying to state in front of everybody what happened, to the best of my knowledge.

CasperXX/The Dawg,

I understand you are angy. I understand you want to protect your friend/s or whatever that own the bar. Fair enough too. But threatening physical beatings as a form of rebuttal makes you guys look so bad it makes me wonder whether you guys are in fact the competition (or secretly hate

Studio 78). Truly.

Until your posts, I just assumed that Peijin had experienced a poor service/training issue (haven't we all), or perhaps a communication problem between layers of management and staff. Something like "We want to attract high spending foreigners with our advertising for this event" which morphed into, "we aint serving locals". Following your posts I'm not so sure. Over the top defensiveness usually means you've hit a nerve. I think threatening a beating qualifies as over the top defensiveness.

If you wanted to protect your bar, then perhaps a reasoned argument, or even explanation would do a hell of a better job. Even better an explanation from the bar saying its not policy, training issue or whatever. I haven't seen that so far.

Until then, I'm going start mentioning to my friends, and I have a few since I've been here for few years and I get out a bit, that Studio 78 isn't a place that we want to go. And yeah, we've been there before, and didn't mind the place.

Chest beating toughs are the main reason I hate clubs/bars in Australia, and enjoy going out here in Shanghai. I don't want that to change.

Shanghai is a small place - threats have a way of leaking around quickly and becoming common knowledge. Guess that worm just keeps turning eh?

CasperXX,

Lighten up, it's called humor. Next time you're at either establishment, bring your friends and hit me up we'll have some drinks and I'll try to stay away from your lady friends and kicking your ass by the end of the night.

The fact that he calls himself "The Dawg" tells us all we need to know.

He is clearly racist, and even more clearly an idiot.

Forget people like that. They are scum stuck to the bottom of your shoe, they are phlegm on the pavement. And should we be shaking in our boots because of this 'Paul Gray' chap? I think not. "The Dawg" would piss his pants if he ever had to say any of this in person. Typical losers. Not worth even dealing with.

sometimes i wonder why i bother replying; I did it again, by the way--just now--on the smartchina Forum. If you want to know why I did it--it's because i have to believe that being to able to communicate rationally with people works. Most people would just let it go, say "it's not worth the time." But for me, that would be admitting defeat. The only way I lose is when someone out argues me, not when they use ad hominem attacks and tirades against me. And I will keep on arguing even if all that gets me a is a pyrrhic victory (and my knee caps broken).

so i guess the next shanghaiist happy hour WON'T be at studio 78. right?

i don't understand what the controversy is here. peijin reported on something that happened to him. he had no reason to lie. and no one associated with the bar has denied anything.

such a story would concern most respectable bar owners. find out what happened. find out why it happened. deal with it and make sure it never happens again. don't have goons make threats on the internet.

no wonder bars never last in this city.

I don't know why people try to talk sense to certain people on certain forums in this town. Looks like Peijin tried to explain himself over here, not that any explanation was really necessary:

My name is Peijin Chen, and I'm the author of the original post on Shanghaiist.com. First off, i'd like to say that I didn't "need a story," because as you might know, Shanghaiist gets a lot of its content from local and international media, and since there's stuff always happening in Shanghai and the world, we are not at a lack for stories.

Secondly, this did happen to me, and I reported what happened as truthfully as possible. Notice that I did say in the post that I didn't think it was a big deal. I never called Studio 78 racist--that word, as well as others, were used more by others who have commented on this issue more than I have myself. If you check the flyer put out regarding the open bar, it never said it was a members or exclusive thing, at least not to my knowledge (and I read it several times).

So I'm a freeloader because I want to go to an open bar and get drinks? The appeal of an "open bar" is precisely that you can get drinks for free. Am I cheapskate Chinese that doesn't get drinks? First of all, they shouldn't judge based on the fact that I'm ethnically Chinese--I am an American by upbringing, and none of this has the slightest relation to my drinking habits. Excuse me for speaking Chinese. I didn't think that this would mean anything at a place like Studio 78, which is a place I've been to before and had no problems with.

As for the picture: yes, most of you know the controversy surrounding the sign--did it or did it not exist. Yes, that sign is from the Bruce Lee movie. Yes, I thought it would be funny. No, I didn't think that it would make Shanghaiist look racist. On that last point--I'm not sure how this makes me look racist. What i think you meant was that it was overly provocative in highlighting the "race" issue, but that doesn't mean that we (shanghaiist, or me as individual) are "racists", ie those that discriminate against others based on race. If the picture tends to detract from the post, then I have only myself to blame for it, I chose the picture, and admittedly, I spend more time thinking about the writing and less about the pictures and perhaps this where the judgment falters.

Nonetheless, I stand by what i wrote -- we were not "paid off" (i assume that was a joke, but anyway), frankly, since we are not run on ad dollars we are not beholden in anyway to anyone. I wrote this because it happened to me, and because blogs, like Shanghaiist, are places where you can share that kind of stuff.

OK. Makes sense. then some guy named "The Dawg" responds with this:

Peijin,you make me laugh dude.
I give you kudos for owning up for your crap blog,and that you are a freeloading dick,however as my below picture suggests-this is YOU
Your happy to take the good old american way of life and privalages that prevail when it suits you,but when the shit hits the fan or some "johnny foreigner" is chatting up your hoe at Guandi you "turn chinese" and call up your asian homies to spank some white ass (and please whatever you do dont insult my intelligence by telling me you have NEVER done that)
I suggest that next time you and your buddy "Dan The Man" go out for a free night drinking that you think about what picture would be apt to go with your prose,becasue that picture you chose didnt do you any favours at all,and im sure that Studio 78 and Paul Gray would JUST LOVE to meet you next time your in (Warn Dan as well if I were you)
Careful what you write dickwad,the worm is turning

Who are these people?

Since when does calling people "racist" take a lot of guts? My dad thinks that all Mexicans are lazy and that all blacks are criminals. Does that make him racist? Most definitely. Does that mean that he can't have any compassion for people? Of course not. At most, my father is misguided and probably a little bitter at life, but he's also in his 50s. It's just sad when the twenty-somethings are racist, which by the way, just means to discriminate someone based on race. And yeah, I know it's a hefty word with a hefty meaning, but come on people.

And even if the bar owners prefer western/white patrons because they think that they'll spend more money, the owners are still racist.

Btw, I've worked at a popular bar in Shanghai before, and from my experience, the people who spend the most money were the wealthiest bunch, Chinese AND foreign. Given the growing size of the rich in China, I would think twice before judging someone at the bar based on race.

Thanks for pointing that out, Brad. I didn't notice that we didn't say where we got that image from, and I apologize to any readers who thought such a sign actually hangs at Studio 78, or anywhere in Shanghai. More information about that image can be found here and here. I'm pretty sure the image is from a Bruce Lee film. Sorry for all the confusion.

You should read some of the comment here

http://forum.smartchina.com/thread/9515/page=1

"Shanghailist were just trying to make the story bigger (by adding this picture) than what it already was,which is ironic because now THEY look racist"

..right...lets beat up all bar-owners. DUUUDE. Wake up.

I am 5'15 and bloody overweight, and ?? So what ???

I have been in Malones AND Studio several times (don't ask how often). Service for my lao wai and chinese friends was not always fast but in the end impeccable.

Calling people RACIST takes a lot of guts.

Think before throwing the first stone.

You have been warned.

Sometimes I feel like Shanghai (and China in general) are very colonial. These examples only prove that true, but it feels good to see that people are angered by these, whether they are local, 'local', or foreign.

I'm Chinese American, 5'11 225 lbs of lean mean ass kicking muscle. Just point me in the right direction of these scum bag local "white loving" bar owners and I'll set them straight. You've been warned.

Cancer sticks for white men only? Count your blessings Xingyu.

Unfortunately the article isn't on the China Daily website. I do remember, however, that she and another member of staff had formally accused Da Marco of physically abusing other members of staff in the past.

Man, I really wish Shanghaiist had been around two years ago so I could share this shitty experience I had at O'Malleys: I was hanging out with a bunch of my friends there playing pool who all happened to be white (I'm Chinese American). I was a smoker at the time and since it was pouring rain out, I decided to buy smokes at the bar. I asked the waitress if they sold cigarettes, she said no very curtly and went about her business. Whatever, didn't think much of it until my friend Joe asked the same waitress for a pack of Malboro Lights (he didn't hear my original request for cigs), which she promptly went to get from the bar. My other friend and I thought this was strange and so asked this little bitch why she sold cigs to Joe but not to me. She said that O'Malleys does not sell cigarettes to Chinese people. Of course, we immediately started yelling at her and saying that was bullshit, bring the manager out. She sort of stalled and kept saying, that's our policy. After a while, all of my friends started yelling at her and I really didn't want to get into a big fight so I decided to just forget about it.

Looking back, I really wish I had insisted on seeing the manager because I truly believe the waitress was lying through her teeth and either a) looked down on Chinese people hanging out with white people, b) thought I was a whore. (which of course, I'm not :)); or c) was just being her usual lazy self and just thought of the first that came to her head when we confronted her. There were plenty of Chinese patrons there so I really don't think O'Malley's has any policies against Chinese people.

Luckily for O'Malleys, I haven't seen that waitress lately... then again, I don't really go there anymore (except for a couple of world cup games); that incident left a pretty big impression on me. And their beers are overpriced.

This Da Marco shit, if true, is sick.

I'm afraid to know what he would do were Italy to actually lose.

the explanation offered at the time was that he was overexcited by the world cup Games.

there was no mention of whether or not he beat his other employees or if he beat them outside the context of getting excited over soccer games

I saw the Da Marco incident on the TV news more than a week ago; they had pictures of her and her busted up face, some shots in the restaurant, etc. I almost had forgotten about it.

i believe Studio 78 did it on purpose, they do not prefer chinese people to come to their bar. you ask me why, i'd say not as much because of racism but more for the money.

many bars in town prefer western/white customers, simply because they are heavy spenders. in contrast many chinese customers tend to buy one cheap drink and stay/sip for a long time and taking the table which could be used by the heavy western drinkers. (by the way there are also many big chinese spenders in a few large venues, bar rouge etc..) so a small bar manager would naturally prefer to have more western/white customers, that would explain why Studio 78 and other bars are playing their locals/foreigners categorizing tricks.

however a friendly warning to small bar/pub owners, this categorization and segregation policy is against the law! china may appear to be as not that lawful and orderly as you see on the surface, but a written law of non-discrimination is there. if it happens that someone calls the TV/paper, you could be in the spotlight for a whole week, and 20 million people in town would learn what you do in your bar. (think about what happened to that japanese karaoke a couples of years back)

china welcomes you to make money and celebrate your time with your western/white friends here. but one golden rule is good to know: "treat everyone the same way as you are back home". if you have a drink special poster, and it does not say "No Chinese and Dogs Allowed", stick to it! when a chinese person comes in even though he dresses like a peasant worker, if he asks for a free drink as you said on the poster, you should deliver the drink, because the poster does not say the free drink is for non-chinese people only. do so would get your business going for the long run:

1. you will stay away from being busted by local media

2. you will not offend those chinese who came back from abroad, who are used to justice and fairness.

3. you are winning the locals who are receiving increasing disposable incomes, look what happened in Hong Kong

4. you will win respect from western people who have lots of chinese friends and do care about this

thank you shanghaiist for giving me this opportunity to express my humble opinion.

Were you wearing Crocs at the time?

Do you have a link?

This is not exactly on topic, but it's certainly related. Did anyone notice the story in the June 30th edition of 'China Daily' about the owner of Da Marco's? Apparently Mr Da Marco is currently discussing a certain delicate situation with the Shanghai police. He has been accused by one of his staff (a Chinese lady) of violently beating her, and other staff at his restaurants.

Has anyone heard anything more about this?

That's my question too. Some Chinese people just seem happy with giving white people special priveleges, it always happens this way. I wonder if they'll offer any explanation.

This is infuriating. The sad thing is it actually happens more frequently with Chinese staff patronizing this kind of behaviour. I wonder what's on the Chinese bartender's mind when he told you it's only for laowai.

never before, however, have I really been told to my face that something is for foreigners only and not for Chinese. That's not just "crap service," i won't say it's racist but it's sure as hell a bit improper and rude. So was i wrong in assuming that open bar means free drinks? Sunny was there. He was the one that felt embarrassse about our situation.

I go to Studio78 with some frequency. I have always seen a comfortable mix of Chinese, overseas Chinese, and foreign clientele. Perhaps you just experienced a typical bit of life in Shanghai: crap service. Hopefully they'll work on it...

Studio was not like that before with Sunny running the bar, but it seems they may be changing managers so who knows. Sad but you never know.

As for Malones, they have had this issue before though recently during the world cup evenings, the bar has been full of non-whote patrons and the service was pretty equal. Personally never had an issue but then again, having been a patron for awhile, I cannot say what its like to be a new patron there. Recent changes in staff seem to have made it better though.

Ever had that sort of trouble at Malone's? I've only been there twice, but they seem to have a serving order: white men first, white women second, anybody Asian-looking last. The waitress actually stopped taking my order in the middle and went over to serve some white guys who had just come in. An Asian couple (one American Chinese, one local) had to flag down a waitress like five minutes after they finally served me, even though they were already at their table when I came in. It left a bad taste in my mouth, and I haven't gone back since.

This picture is taken from the Bruce Lee movie. Right ? I'm not shure ther was such a thing in the old Shanghai. They were "politicaly correct", even in thos days ;-)

This is happening all over again, soon

there will be no dogs and Chinese allowed

bathrooms.