Shanghaiist: If China ruled Kansas, would anyone care?

aljensen

Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:34:21 +0800

We just started a free website for learning Mandarin at Zhongwen Blue in expectation of the fact that more and more people are going to want to learn Mandarin (and will prefer to do so for free). I'm not so sure that China will be the world's next superpower, though.

Orpheus

Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:59:43 +0800

nanheyangrouchuan says: "You mean besides claiming parts of korea, Kazakstan, India, all of the south china sea, Taiwan and roughlyl %25 of Siberia? How about the concept of 天下?" - Here is evidence that half knowledge is a dangerous thing. 1. While Russia did take a chunk of Siberia from China in late-Qing Dynasty, I am not aware of any current "claim" of it. Maybe Commissar Kabob can enlighten us with some "state secret" chest-tumling from the Power That Be? The same applies to Kazakstan. 2. Territorial claim on Korea??? 3. Land dispute with India: go read up on Nehru's "Forward" drive back in 1960s. Read those written by Australian historians, for something approaching objectivity. I despise Mr. Kabob's knee-jerk reaction in any land dispute that involves China. I guess the complexity of such historical issues is just too hard to grapple with for some people. In that case, don't pretend to know what is beyond one's feeble intellect. 4. Why don't you enlighten us on "the concept of 天下"? I am all ears.

our name here

Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:17:02 +0800

Hi Peijin - >> I agree that just because a politician, like Wen, makes promises, doesn't mean they can actually keep their words, but my main point is that I do not see China as the threat the US "Hawks" would like to portray them as mostly due to ignorance. China's economy may show the US's huge debt, but that debt also includes many US companies profits in China, due to the US companies manufacturing in China. Take Apple Computer for example, they contract with Foxconn of Taiwan, who runs the factory in China, that makes the Ipod. The sale of the Ipods to the US will be counted as China's profit and the US's debt, but the actual profit is made by Apple (USA), Foxconn (Taiwan), and factory (China) - thus, the actual debt the US owes to China is actually less. The economic potential of China is huge, but relative to a huge population - most people are not rich. Militarily, China is way behind the US (about 20 years, as estimated by the US DoD). Practically, China will not pursue an arms race with the US, because they know it can not win. However, that doesn't mean they will not spend militarily. Socially, China has alot of internal problems: Pollution, eroding arable land, toxic, etc... environmental problems. Social unrest, corruption, human rights issues, law enforcement, have and have nots, crime, etc .. the list goes on. My point is that China likes to show the world its best "face", and hide its problems. Unfortunately, that may lead people to think China is "going to take over the world", because they're doing so well, but the reality is not all shiney and bright - they have their fair share of problems. Most of all, I believe China will NOT try to "take over the world", because "the US is trying to take over the world". China seems to be taking the OPPOSITE approach to foreign policy, that the US is taking - if the US tells a country they cannot do "this or that" - China will tell them they will not interfere with "this or that" - if the US is calling their leader a tyrant - China will invite that leader to a state dinner. All of this, is of course, very upsetting to the US, but my point is China will not want to compete with the US for world domination, because the US is making so many enemies and mistakes in the world, that China does not need to interfere with the US's downfall, because the US is doing the job of self-destruction themselves. Therefore, China does not need seek hegemony, but hegemony will seek China.

SU

Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:52:09 +0800

well,i am chinese student from Chongqing and currently lives in the NYS. It is funny to read the article and all comments follow. As a Chinese student, for sure that I hope that China could be a superpower in the world one day. However,i don't think the majority of Chinese people wanna rule the world.(Although some crazy guys may do) btw,based on well-accepted forcast, that China will become the #1 economic body in terms of GDP in the next 50 yrs not 10.....so don't worry about too much about what the high school cute boy says. sorry about my poor english...

peijin

Wed, 30 Aug 2006 02:07:57 +0800

"China will never seek hegemony" -- personally I'm not going to take Wen's word at it. I don't think Chinese is overtly aggressive, but the truth is that it is getting stronger in every meaningful sense (political, economic, military) and even without "seeking hegemony" it seems that they are still on the way to becoming the overwhelming power in East Asia. I certainly hope that with the power will be used responsibly, but we'll have to wait and see.

your name here

Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:44:20 +0800

Just to be sure no person is confused, the last paragraph: "I love America, and wish we can do better for people of the world, because we are more priviledged than most, but our policy of world domination just doesn't seem to work in he 21st century - too many enemies." Definitely does not belong to Premier Wen.

your name here

Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:41:06 +0800

nanheyangrouchuan says:(in ref to Chinese in politics) "You ought to consider what's been going on in california before you make such comments. The US Democratic party also actively took campaign contributions from friends of Jiang Ze Min in the early and mid 90s." I really don't know what you mean by this, because you were not specific. But what I meant was the blatant disproportion of Chinese or Asians in politics - that is - there is only a handful of Asian politicians in the US compared to other ethnicities. How many Chinese Mayors, Senators, Governors, etc are there in the US? I rest my case. And if you were referring to possible campaigne contributions from Chinese Nationals to US lobbyists, then you must also consider other foreign contributions, like Israel's AIPAC Lobby who most recently has been proven to be harmful to US National Security for its influence in the US participation in the Lebanon War. Read "The Israel Lobby", by Stephen Walt, and John Mearsheimer. Also www.cair.com for more info. I belong to no political party by the way, and not an antisemite. Also: China has made it clear to the world in: "China will never seek hegemony: Premier Wen 2004/06/28" BEIJING, June 28 (Xinhuanet) -- China will never threaten any one,pursue expansion or seek hegemony, said Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao here Monday. Wen made the remarks when addressing a conference commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence. He said that China will always put development on the top of its government's agenda. A successful running of China is in itself a major contribution to peace and development of humanity. He added that China will continue to pursue an independent foreign policy of peace, and dedicate itself to developing friendly relations and cooperation with all countries. China will firmly safeguard its sovereignty and territorial integrity, tolerating no one to interfere in its internal affairs.At the same time, the country will respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of others, he noted. China will open still wider to the outside world on the basis of equality and mutual benefit, while engaging in economic and technical cooperation with other countries with greater scope and depth, he said. China will continue to improve and develop its relations with the developed countries, expand the areas of common interests and properly handle the differences with them, he noted. Wen said that China will build good-neighborly relationships and partnerships and work still harder in implementing the policy of creating an amicable, secure and prosperous neighborhood. China will continue to strengthen the solidarity and cooperation with the vast number of developing countries, and actively explore ways for effective South-South cooperation under the new circumstances, he said. China will vigorously participate in multilateral diplomacy andplay a constructive part at the United Nations and other international and regional organizations, he said. The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence are mutual respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, mutual non-aggression, non-interference in each other's internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit, and peaceful coexistence. I love America, and wish we can do better for people of the world, because we are more priviledged than most, but our policy of world domination just doesn't seem to work in he 21st century - too many enemies.

ZL

Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:37:21 +0800

“China is going to take over the world in 10 years” Damn, and I had 12 in the office pool... Good Day Comrades

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:41:29 +0800

@peijin The only "white" immigrant areas in the US I have found to still exist are the Brit and French expat communities (to get away from the african and middle eastern immigrants in europe) and the odd Russian or eastern european enclave. But many of the older communities such as Brighton Beach, while still having original flavor, are overrun with run of the mill white yuppies. Same with old irish enclaves in Boston and Chicago. As for "assimilation", it is an important part of the transition to being "native". Many white americans are third or fourth generation and remeber hearin all of the stories about their ancestors not liking or associating with people who weren't like them. This way of thinking extended to not letting "foreigners" into their neighbors and using violence to keep them out...or just refusing to do business with them. Pretty stupid behavior, eh? That's old world "village values" and the world is better off without them. And as events in Europe point out, cultural assimilation takes on even more importance, lest the US experience a week of burning cars or a couple of bombings by citizens from foreign families.

peijin

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:36:37 +0800

@nanheyangrouchuan I have to vehemently disagree with the idea that Chinese people keep to themselves and form enclaves liek Chinatown because of some kind of belief in the superiority of all things Chinese. I can imagine a Chinaman from the 1800s thinking (damn, the steak sauce whities use is disgusting, or their medicine doesn't work well) but to argue that there is some kind of superiority complex inherent in this is, in my mind, something that cannot be proved. If they believed that Chinese things were superior, why emigrate to the US at all? I don't see Harlem or Newark or Detroit as an argument that african-americans form communities because of some superiority complex. Chinese people also band together because they enjoy the company of other Chinese, because Chinese culture is what they are familiar with. That can't always be considered a negative, refusal of the outside world. You say that the Russians and Italians are gone -- well, not really. There are still "white" enclaves in the US, though obviously less than before. Newer groups -- Arabs, Brazilians, Russians -- still have enclaves in big cities or their suburbs. Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Koreans, Iranians -- in southern Cali, there are all these "enclaves" and communities, i don't see how the Chinese are different. Perhaps you mean that they Chinese are more "stubborn" in their refusal to assimilate or acculturate (two different concepts)? I for one am glad that my parents didn't completely assimilate. My parents never lived in Chinatown, it was always the suburbs, which were largely white back in the 1970s and 1980s. But there was always a stubborn refusal to let go of things, esp. when it comes to children. You can talk about feelings of 'superiority' but I would rather talk about 'pride' and 'heritage'-- now you don't need to wall off the world to in order to have pride or pass on a heritage. You can do it from a suburb where everyone else is white -- but it's hard, chances of success are dim. I almost wish I grew up in Chinatown, despite the pervasive smell of fish -- I had to learn pride the hard way, had to reacquaint myself with aspect of Chinese culture the hard way. @Micah -- not sure what you meant here regarding the temple. The Republic of California is dotted with temples of various sorts, it's one of the best places in the US to lead a monastic life. Most of them are in northern and southern Cali (the major population centers). I pointed out the pavilion in Iowa because it's a bit more rare to find stuff like that there. It was meant a bit ironically, since it's not really a big deal one way or the other, who cares about non-events in the midwest when there's a "New Middle East" being born on the other side of the globe?

peijin

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:58:23 +0800

click4: I realize not everyone in the US is blond, I grew up in the US and was allowed out of the house on occasion. My statement was meant tongue in cheek. By the way, your statement is wrong. There are not tens of millions of Chinese people -- there are maybe tens of millions of Asians. The entire Chinese diaspora numbers not much more than 50 million. Taking your point further, one should ask out of the 2.7 million people (2000 US census) that are Chinese-Americans, how many actually want to watch this kind of TV? One would assume that most of the potential viewers are those fluent in Chinese. Now the amount of Chinese Americans who are fluent in Chinese is another subset of the above 2.7 million. Given my experience as a Chinese-American i would estimate that most of the kids born or raised in the US either 1. can't understand enough Chinese for long-term viewing to be worthwile, and 2. aren't interested in such shows. But there are substantial amounts of people who are not US citizens -- green card applicants from the PRC, and perhaps students from the PRC, as well as non-Chinese americans that want to watch to learn Chinese. Add it all up and it's not *tens of millions* of people, but it's still, perhaps, a good business prospect for KylinTV. None of this matters, of course, since I was just trying to be funny. Funny haha.

click4

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:18:09 +0800

> Americans love Chinese TV, for why else would > this happen: > KyLinTV is the first to roll-out > ChongQing TV (CQTV) in North America... That's because there are tens of millions of Americans of Chinese descent, and there is thus a good-sized market for such Chinese-language programs. Not all Americans are blue-eye blond caucasians.

smoot

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:25:42 +0800

"Peaceful Rise" and "non-interference" is strictly for public consumption, and simply reflects the appropriate "face" at this phase in China's development.

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:16:44 +0800

Buddhism is not the issue, nor is it a problem.

Micah

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:40:35 +0800

Speaking of Rowland Heights, there's a *humongous* Buddhist temple somewhere there in SoCal. I don't hear people making a big deal about that...

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:22:24 +0800

"but there is nothing in China's doctrine that suggests they plan to, or even want to "take over the world"" You mean besides claiming parts of korea, Kazakstan, India, all of the south china sea, Taiwan and roughlyl %25 of Siberia? How about the concept of 天下? "all that is necessary is to look at the Chinatowns in the US, and notice how the people of Chinatown keep to themselves" That's because those people refuse to try to acclimate to their surroundings and believe all things chinese are superior. The little Italies, Little Russias, etc are all gone except in name as yuppie neighborhoods in the US, only Chinatowns remain. "rarely enter politics" You ought to consider what's been going on in california before you make such comments. The US Democratic party also actively took campaign contributions from friends of Jiang Ze Min in the early and mid 90s.

Newton D. Figg

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:01:10 +0800

When did Des Moines, Iowa become part of the Northwest U.S.?

your name here

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:55:50 +0800

Why all the fuss about China? I believe China will become the largest economy in the world, but I do not believe they will "take over the world". This kind of talk gets attention, but there is nothing in China's doctrine that suggests they plan to, or even want to "take over the world". The United States, however, does have a doctrine, by George W. Bush, that states that the US will be the worlds only SuperPower, and will commit to force to uphold if necessary. China is NOT the USA, and does not want to take over the world. It is from the perspective of the US that China is after world domination, and that nothing else could be their goal, but this belief of the US is due to the US's own imperialist perspective - "if we (the US) want to rule the world, why don't they?" The US could not possibly believe anything else, and this is very dangerous, because it will lead to war. For the US to understand China, all that is necessary is to look at the Chinatowns in the US, and notice how the people of Chinatown keep to themselves, rarely enter politics, and are always open for business - that's China.

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:11:02 +0800

The "china is taking over" stuff is already past its prime. Russia has the resources and India has the tech and entrepreneur spirit. Yeah, all of these panda huggers ought to travel to Xichuan and see the conditions that people live under and ask themselves "do we want party bosses running our state?"

Derek Scruggs

Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:13:15 +0800

Speaking as someone who is 1) married to a great Chinese woman and 2) an enthusiast about China's potential and 3) a struggling learner of Putonghua who plans to live in China for an extended period someday: 1. "China is going to take over the world in 10 years," sounds a lot like what people were saying in the late 80s-early 90s, except replace "China" with "Japan." And even then Japan's banks were a lot healthier than China's. I'm bullish on China, but I'm also bullish on eastern Europe and I'm not learning Hungarian. 2. I know a lot of kids here whose parents are both from China. Nevertheless, their Chinese is pretty weak by the time they reach high school. They speak it okay (though my wife says their spoken Chinese is on the level of grammar school) but they can't read or write it worth a crap. Given that, an English-only American household practicing defensive Chinese is likely to lose.