Shanghaiist: Diaoyutai: High drama on the high seas

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:53:31 +0800

So thin skinned and proud, you must be chinese. Yes, other countries must be right because it is the word of many against the word of one. The lie of Zheng He's map, the weak attempt to create "Beijing man" and the failure of archeological expeditions in Xinjiang to prove that Han chinese settled that area in the stone age (Turkish caucasians actually did) only prove in stone the deceitful, crooked nature of China's recorded history.

usagi

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 01:20:38 +0800

if China has obviously according to you falsified historical record and map, then other countries' MUST be right. if you dont have any faith in any of the old records, how can you have so much in others old records ? didnt they also went through society transition as well, some even more than what China went through? i am now totally dismissing your point, there is no more reason to do this little DEBATE with you, because you are starting to contrdicte yourself.

usagi

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 01:04:14 +0800

so in other words, China is a BAD BAD BAD country, then what the hell are u doing there ? to be among the horribles and fight back when the timing is right ? or to become one of them ?

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 00:33:17 +0800

Being a world power means you can influence events beyond your immediate borders. China does weigh heavily on world financial markets, shipping and geopolitics (S. America, Africa and the middle east especially) so in that sense, China is a world power. China's military is not quite up to the task, China could make a big mess going after TW, but if the PLA loses, the CCP will crumble and so will China, that is why the CCP has not sent the PLA to burn TW to the ground so TW can feel the loving embrace of mother china. Not quite like SK/NK. I stopped believing China was "communist" after about 3 months. China's govt has always behaved in this manner: controlling, paranoid, arrogant with an inferiority complex. Pushing literacy and barefoot doctors were China's biggest accomplishments. Creating a class of untouchables, unprecedented pollution and unflinching support for the murderous Kim family are going to be China's true legacies. Middle eastern territorial disputes have little to do with "middle of the world" mentalities and more to do with the map drawing of european powers and tribal rivalries, same as africa. The supposed "Zheng He" map only confirmed what many have suspected, china has rewritten history so many times to justify what land it owns adn what it invented that china cannot keep its story straight anymore. Thankfully, the Persians and other asian countries also recorded their histories including China's hegemony, constant bullying and frequent invasions. Bad, deceitful China.

usagi

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:06:16 +0800

hahahahahahahaha no one has ever called me 'son' since i was born :D If China really is a major world power like you claim She is, then she should have no problem taking what's hers. so in other words, TW was rightfully occupied, then it should be able to have the ability to establish regular contact, but no, it took years for families from both lands to reunite. kind of like the S/N Korea story, isn't it. just because it's 'communist' then it is automatically bad in your books. it is true, that until one day we eliminate hunger and poverty in this world, communism will never be truly achieved. but you'd also have to understand that China does deserve its credits for doing a fairly decent job so far. regardless of this land issue, so does the middle east have such dispute as well. you can say that China doesnt have the 'right' she so claims since' the ancient times'. Were you all alive and well during that 'ancient times'? Can you truly and honestly say that those places REALLY didnt belong to China under oath? if you do, then i'd like you to answer a question a lot of people are dying to findout, and i will be sure to accredit the answer to you, you must've been present when they built the Pyramids too, so did the Aliens help them?

nanheyangrouchuan

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:05:05 +0800

Probably because usagi isn't afraid of intellectual debate concerning the "blue sky and green grass" of the Capitalists' Paradise aka the Next Superpower aka heaven. B is obviously someone who is scared to discuss things in a rational way and prefers to be told "everything is wonderful and that's what you are going to keep believing".

b

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:38:42 +0800

Why do you bother answering back to nanheyangrouchuan? He/She obviously has alot of time on his hands, and has a problem with China/Chinese in general. It may just be that his someone who has a problem with everyone in general, the real grouchy types. Basically, the type of person you wouldn't normally talk with in person, or at a party, so why bother on the net, usagi?

nanheyangrouchuan

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 09:52:03 +0800

I'd love to hear about France getting backstabbed even though the US paid the agreed upon price for the LP. The Confederacy also lost to insufficient industry and the UK and France not being able to reach their ports, BTW the confederacy planned on turning the Carribbean and Mexico into plantation colonies if they won. The Spanish stole that land from the natives, the Mexicans inherited it, so beating an occupier to take their land is perfectly OK. Puerto Rico chooses not to be a state, Panama was at most a commercial source of agriculture. So what part of China's "universe" can choose whether to join or keep Beijing at arm's length. The Quebec issue is pretty much dead, they couldn't live on their own economically. Northern Ireland is disarming and England is not pushing the Church of England, and you can see that the English are slaughtering Irish to suppress them, a favorite PLA/Imperial Chinese army tactic. According to my logic re the Dalai Lama. Of course Tibet is "his country" as he is the rightful rule in exile. Don't put words in my mouth, son. The TW gov't didn't lose the civil war, they gained TW, which under the Treaty of Cairo is the sole property of Taipei. China is a major world power that is acting like a child, demanding this and that over some supposed past wrongs and part of these real esate grabs is due to desperate nationalism to preserve support for the CCp. Europe needed two earth scorching to learn the stupidity of this thinking, China has nukes. Heck, Beijing claims part of northern Korea, hope the PLA has been practicing hard, the SK army is not some group of lightly armed villagers like the Tibetans were.

WLW

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 09:44:54 +0800

I don't understand why you have to turn this into a China good/bad discussion. Yes, a lot of countries have border disputes; that is normal. What is unusual is the rapid rate of Chinese ascent, China's unusually long history, and it's willingness to interpret that history as "continuous and unified" and make claims based upon that understanding.

usagi

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 05:31:44 +0800

FYI China isn't the only place that's claiming DiaoYuTai, so does TW.

usagi

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 05:29:23 +0800

without saying that the US backstabbed France as soon as they truned around, eventhough paid for it. the South was lost due to insufficient finance, even today, the south claimed other wise. They still stole or you put it , absorbed from the Spanish Empire, how could that be rightfully claimed. and I am not even talking about Mexico. Puerto Rico, Panama none of that is rightfully an State yet. so you can keep your opinion reserved when Phillipines becomes one of them. Quebec and Canada is still long going on FYI. Northern Ireland and England is also still long going on. Chechnya and Russia same thing, they all have the same problem. Okinawa and Japan same problem, ask anyone from Okinawa, and they would tell u that they are not Japanese, they are from Okinawa. according to you, then the Dali Lama had no right to claim Tibet is his country and they should have their indepence. and since the TW government lost the civil war, they should sign the treaty as well and not hold TW as an independent country, and all would be as well? I'm not here to argue with you claiming China has the right to DiaoYuTai islands, if that is the case, so does China has a lot of other rights too, like more of the southern islands' group, like TW. all im saying is China isn't the only country in this world has these things going on, so does a lot of other countries, I hope you can respect others and have some respect for yourself as well. always see the big picture and try to understand other's logical reasoning. there is never anything truly right or truly wrong. after all, when you lose, you are the terrorist; when you win, you are the king. that's what the US Founding Fathers did.

nanheyangrouchuan

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:09:11 +0800

The Louisiana Purchase? France got paid for it. The Confederate States were defeated and when they signed on the Constitution, there is no legal provision for them to seperate. Texas won its independence WITHOUT the US army, then joined the US on its own. Florida and California were absorbed from the remains of the Spanish empire, none of that territory was ever rightfully Mexico's. Hawaii was a straight-up conquest spurred by corporations. Puerto Rico, Panama and the Phillipines (you forgot about them, learn your history) were also taken from the Spanish empire. But at no time were those territories ever claimed as "rightfully the territories of the US since ancient times". Quebec and Canada were French and British colonies, respectfully. Quebec has held referendums to secede and all have failed. Northern Ireland and England? Don't know much of the real history, ask someone who is Irish or British, but part of that war seemed based on religion. Chechnya and Russia? see above, though I've read that the seperatists are actually a minority who happen to have weapons. Okinawa and Japan? Don't see any problems there, is Okinawa in revolt? What else have you got?

usagi

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:05:36 +0800

nah, didnt get to go, it was toooooo far away, but went to San Fran's world famous parade instead yeah, it was fun heard of a thing called the Lousiana Purchase 1803 ? yeah, so what happened to the Confederate States? oh yeah, Texas, California, Florida ? oh yeah, what about Hawaii ? Puder Rico, Panama ? Quebec and Canada? Northern Ireland and England ? Chechenia and Russia ? Okinawa and Japan to whomever fixed the repeat posts, Thank You

nanheyangrouchuan

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 00:02:35 +0800

And what sort of territories do those countries claim as theirs "since ancient times"? Usagi, did you have fun during the gay pub crawl?

usagi

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:48:23 +0800

so do a lot of other countries like Canada Russia England and the US need i say more ?

breadnlambmeat

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:55:13 +0800

China seems to have a chronic problem claiming other countries' territories.

nanheyangrouchuan

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:45:47 +0800

China seems to claim alot of other countries' territories.

WLW

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:20:17 +0800

I don't think anyone is sailing to the 钓鱼台 -- certainly not the Japanese coast guard. Thanks.

Orpheus

Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:59:18 +0800

“钓鱼岛”; the full name is“钓鱼台群岛”,a series of small islands；in Japanese Kanji,“尖阁列岛”。 “钓鱼台”, on the other hand, usually refers to the grand hotel for state guests in Beijing.