Shanghaiist: Beijing holds first human rights exhibition

hdp

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:22:07 +0800

Happy Thanksgiving to you too :)

DP

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:36:37 +0800

Actually, hdp, I'm not so worked up. While blogging comments is a chance for me to be an opinionated sonofabitch on a number of subjects, it's primarily a writing exercise for me practice formulating solid statements or arguments, while concurrently attempting to push others to do the same with their own point of view. I appreciate your engaging. And more than that, I admire your restraint. Often, thoughtful, articulate blogging draws the ire of those whose blogus-operandi is to name call and denigrate others. Happy Thanksgiving.

hdp

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:34:00 +0800

OK calm down.

DP

Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:36:27 +0800

After clocking five years here hdp, do you honestly feel I'm out of line referring to a certain segment of Shanghai society as "knuckle-dragging, chain-smoking locals"? What's more, my statement is pointedly directed a particular group -- of whom nanheyangrouchuan clearly recognizes -- and hardly insinuates that Chinese are less evolved than the rest of us (whomever that is?). Smoking is just hideous for multitudes of reasons. It’s an indefensible, invasive act that clearly violates the breathing space and risks the health of others. When industry pollutes the environment in ways that puts people's health at risk, we largely condemned it. Yet, smoking, which it can be argued is simply a micro-version of the prior, constantly gets a pass from scores of people who like to think of themselves as ‘evolved’. Go figure.

nanheyangrouchuan

Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:42:57 +0800

The locals just can't get over that "cool" look one supposedly has when sucking on a cancer stick. Of course when your middle aged, have dried out lips and working on the comb-over, smoking isn't cool anymore, its an addiction.

hdp

Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:43:09 +0800

Actually, DP, I was more taken aback by your description of "knuckle-dragging, chain-smoking locals", as if to insinuate Chinese are less evolved than the rest of us. I guess you have a problem with their monosyllabic language too. I'm impressed that you have survived seven productive years. I have just notched up five myself.

DP

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:02:06 +0800

Clearly hdp hasn't been in Shanghai too long, or he’d know that, as much as this city is a smoker's paradise, it's also a whingers' paradise if there ever was one. A great many people are both. (Confession: I had to look up ‘whingers’.) I’ve been here seven reasonably productive years, hdp, doing my part along the way to make Shanghai a slightly better place to live – which ain’t easy, thank you. I think that constitutes having a bit of a life. The thing is, I’m trying to enjoy and prolong that life. Would you say I’m entitled to that; that that's my 'right'? Or does the right to smoke wherever one damn well pleases, stinking up everything and everyone within a three-meter radius, supersede the right of people like me to not to be subjected to cancerous side-stream smoke and the smoker's generally odious aura. Do you have a genuine smoker’s (I’m assuming) opinion on this, hdp? Or are your personal polemics limited to impulsive, monosyllabic swipes?

zaqzaq

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:43:48 +0800

I believe that Chinese people think more like a community only to the group of people around them (family, guangxi, etc...) otherwise they are much more SELFISH and impolite with the people they do not know... (check the metro you will understand) About the harmony... maybe they mean by harmony the capacity to make people obey by sending police/army...

hdp

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:35:54 +0800

DP, get a life. If you don't like Shanghai go home. No place for whingers.

Dan

Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:57:28 +0800

The new Moon River Diner seemed like it had the potential to be smoke-free (or at least partially smoke-free ... our table and the ones nearby had no-smoking signs). It's technically not a cafe, but we did see them grinding coffee beans there. We're not sure about the wireless situation, though.

DP

Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:43:52 +0800

Umm...I guess that's "Is it my right..." (Hard to type straight with cigarette smoke burning your eyes.) Add Element Fresh—which bills itself as a healthy eatery—to the smoky café list. I'm sitting there right now. One bite into my Teriyaki Chicken, two smokers on either side of me light up (now that they've finished their meals). I asked the waiter to move to me to another table. Another diner followed my lead. The smokers went on about their smoking, as smokers do, taking another long drag on their path to hell.

DP

Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:13:43 +0800

It is my human right in China, er, Shanghai not to be force-fed stinky, nasty-ass second-hand smoke spewed by knuckle-dragging, chain-smoking locals and über-cool, butt-slinging foreigners at Arch, Boona Cafe and the run of just about every other cafe in town?

Simon Templar

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:48:35 +0800

Im looking forward to seeing the sculpture depicting the executed prisoners whose organs are harvested for transplants. Bet their relatives will be lining up for that display.

Nick

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 05:27:16 +0800

What? Chinese people have bmws AND human rights now? Oh the government is so great!!!

nanheyangrouchuan

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 00:36:50 +0800

I guess the Chinese gov't just doesn't include the part about chinese people being included in these negotiations and consultations. They are completely out of the "circle of trust". Meanwhile, us "confrontational" westerners just overthrew the Neocon agenda (peacefully) and Europe is coming to grips with their immigrant population (without having to stomp entire sections of large cities with PAP style shock troops).

Peter

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:07:08 +0800

Okay, I'm getting sick of this little propaganda schtick that the Chinese are somehow more community-oriented than any other nation on earth. That may have been true in the past, but I don't think it's true anymore. If you ever tried to step on to a bus or subway, you know exactly what I am talking about. This so-called "harmony" is all about pretense. Social relations? Bah. More like servitude to Confucian patriarchy. Most of the "confrontational" Westerners I know are just honest, and emotionally intelligent enough to handle let downs.

peijin

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:27:57 +0800

well, in the Chinese, you see that he uses the character 'zheng' 争 as in 争论，争辩，争执。 the first two mean debate, which is a plausible description of how westerners envision society working--various interest groups and segments of society debate about what is good and bad for society, try to gain the upper hand through elections or other mechanisms, etc. The Chinese on the other hand, emphasize harmony--which means that they are more likely to find some kind of compromise that manages to let everyone get a bit of whatever they wanted--it's not an "agonistic" conception of the polity the way that i think the Greeks meant it--debate in a public space as the heart of democracy and society. I don't want people to think that Chinese people think westerners are all about "fighting" or conflict, esp. if it means violence, e.g. iraq. It could also be taken to mean that we value vigorous debate, which is not a bad thing, to us, and more or less how we think of ourselves anyway.

skyboxxx

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 17:08:53 +0800

Here he says that Westerners emphasize "confrontation" whereas Chinese people emphasize harmony and therefore are much more open to to solving problems through dialogue. Subterfuge is the name of their game.

peijin

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:53:28 +0800

Bob, i think it is a good thing that they have such exhibitions, at least in the sense that the UN human rights regime is considered legitimate. This even though i don't think they have signed the covenant on political rights. Political rights are the thorny ones, and i'd rather see China at least buy into the human rights theories rather than saying "we don't give a shit at all."

Bob Chippens

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 14:49:34 +0800

"Here he says that Westerners emphasize "confrontation" whereas Chinese people emphasize harmony and therefore are much more open to to solving problems through dialogue." I love this romanticised notion about Chinese 'harmony' vs Western 'confrontation'. If it were as black and white as this, China would be a peaceful utopia and the west would be in constant turmoil at all levels. Good to see such an exhibition, and agree that human rights issues can be seen as different in different places... but worried that it's just a self-justification front.

nanheyangrouchuan

Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:32:36 +0800

What a load of bull, like Hitler lecturing on interfaith relations. Let's ask the Dalai Lama, the captive Tibetans, the threatened Taiwanese and the etnically cleansed Uyghurs.