Obama's China itinerary revealed
Shanghai Photographer Night at Dada
Racism in China: How poignant is it?
Heart Attack: Starring Jake Newby
Monitors remind classmates that love is publically unacceptable
At least that's what celeb writer Yu Qiuyu (余秋雨) said at a recent public function. From Slate Indiaenews.com we found this report:
Shanghai people's inward looking attitudes are costing the city its status as a global cultural centre equal to the likes of Paris, New York or Beijing, says Yu Qiuyu, a Chinese scholar.Shanghai has riveted world attention in recent years because of its blistering economic growth. But its cultural status has not kept pace, said Yu, addressing a function held by the Shanghai Media Group to mark the launch of a database for celebrities and talents.
With respect to Shanghai in particular, Yu believes that Shanghai has spent too much effort trying to play up local culture, such as local and regional forms of opera and comedy such as Yue Ju (越剧), Hu Ju (沪剧), Slapstick (滑稽戏) or, in the realm of literature and letters, the Shanghai school (海派), whose heyday was in 1930s Shanghai, when the city became the center of the literary and publishing world in China, with everything from (talented) hacks churning out numerous boilerplate romantic novels (notably of the Mandarin Duck and Butterfly school/鸳鸯蝴蝶派言情小说) as well as the home of many of China's most famous writers -- loosely known as the Shanghai School (海派).
Yu Qiuyu argues that writers such as Lu Xun and Ba Jin, who both lived in Shanghai at points in their lives, were great writers whose work and thought managed to transcend the local. Yu argued that today, Shanghai still faces the problem of being too parochial and inward looking, and this is what stands in the way of Shanghai becoming a true cultural capital.
Yu blames some of this on the information explosion, which causes some people, for example, to surf the internet and waste their time blogging, which they mistakenly believe to be an idealized form of social interaction because no one on the internet has bad breath.
Yu closed his speech by asking that Shanghai be more courageous in terms of cultural innovation and creativity. Shanghainese people, he says, have never been ones to rock the boat -- not exactly an atmosphere conducive to true artistic creation and innovation.
We think Yu brings up a good point, but we still remain optimistic about Shanghai's future. Thinking back to 2000-2001, when we decided to move here, we're reminded of how, like a Virginia Slim, Shanghai's come a long way. The media always seems to be bursting at the seams with new events, happenings, exhibitions, concerts, etc. Granted, we aren't where we're supposed to be, but it seems that everyday there's a new influx of people, ideas, and capital that somehow manages to alter our cultural equation, with the result that we never quite know what it all adds up to.
Frankly, we think that Yu probably isn't that up on all this stuff, but we can't blame him, since not everyone reads Shanghaiist -- yet. On the other hand, he might not think much of what is happening here, even if he were aware of all of it -- he might call it derivative, or too commercial (despite the fact that's he made his fortune from writing). As a writer whose speech touched on other (great) writers, what Yu is talking about is highfalutin' stuff like fiction and poetry, maybe painting. The way we understand it, if one day Hongkou or Zhabei becomes the Brooklyn of Shanghai, full of scruffy people with laptops in cafes brooding about their uncompleted novels, we'll have arrived at something approximating his vision of Shanghai.
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
post to facebook
Is this Shanghaiist's idea of a counter argument? Are you seriously suggesting a variety of bar openings and brand launch parties makes for cultural vibrancy? Oh yes, if only boring old Yu Qiuyu read Shanghaiist he'd stop droning on about 'highfalutin' stuff like books 'n stuff and get down to the latest Veuve Cliq party at K5 on the roof of the, er, well some old building with paintings in apparently. And yeah damn his hypocrisy for earning a living as a writer! Good point Shanghaiist, well done...you truly embody the spirit of this city by being both philistine and utterly, utterly moronic.
We think Yu brings up a good point, but we still remain optimistic about Shanghai’s future.
Granted, we aren't where we're supposed to be ...
RH, I'm not sure if you and I read the same post. I didn't get the feeling Shanghaiist was trying to counter Yu's argument. And you obviously aren't familiar with Mr. Chen's sense of humour.
The only culture in Shanghai is bar culture.
wait, there is shopping culture and snob culture, see, shanghai is "multicultural". Oh yeah, add yocal culture (yelling and slap fighting, migrant culture (slack jawed staring and emitting obscenities at girls with foreign men)and general chinese crowd culture (pushing, shoving, line jumping and bodily fluids ejecting).
Then there is foreign culture (I'm white, worship me OR My parents are chinese immigrants, I'm the best of both cultures aaaaaaaaaand worship me).
A country the size and 'age' of China is clearly long overdue a big cultural boom. But the problem is not that complicated. It's the government.
I have a bunch of Chinese friends who are playing in bands, good artists or writers or whatever but there's not much they can do on a big stage. There is an underground scene of course, but as we see with the music, if it sticks out too much the local gov depts will either censor it or shake it down for money.
They can get a blog but don't expect their own TV show anytime soon.
That why speeches like the one in the article are just 'Kong Hua'.
RH:
My post was not a counter-argument. I agree, as much as my understanding based on the articles i read, with what Yu had to say. My point was just that Shanghai is growing in terms of culture. And many of the commenters on this thread have missed the point as well. I'm saying that the growing visual arts scene, the Rodin exhibit, the aging pop stars, the underground rappers, the documentary filmmakers, the jazz musicians, graphic designers, and architects are forming a new creative class in Shanghai. Many of these people are foreign or foreign-trained, and many of these people are probably in the age range of 25-50, meaning that they are fairly globally oriented in terms of their cultural influences and outlook. Yu is talking mostly about Chinese writers and culture, and my point was that on Shanghaiist we sometimes feature posts that touch on some of the cultural happenings and energy here in Shanghai.
Hdp and nanheyangrouchuan don't even bother giving us their opinion about the arts scene or cultural climate here, most likely because they are not watching it, trying to separate wheat from chaff, trying to detect trends, trying to looks for signs of life. Instead, they are indulging in huge generalizations (the only culture is bars, or nanheyangrouchuan's continued bleating about uncouth Chinese habits).
And RH, you pretty much seem to think along those lines as well -- which means that you don't read this blog because although we do talk about restaurants and dining, as well as bars, we do not do so to the exclusion of other topics, and you will find if you read closely that many of the contributors here are quite interested and INVOLVED in the scene here, be it underground or not.
Furthermore, none of you have bothered to reference 1930s Shanghai literary culture--without this historical context in mind it is impossible to place Yu's critique within the proper historical and cultural context.
But nevermind, since I'm a philistine and a moron to boot, and nothing i could say could convince you people otherwise.
and RH, when i said that Yu should read Shanghaiist that was meant as joke -- I really believe that most people have made analogous jokes in their lives, like when they say "she's gorgeous, but not as gorgeous as me." The fact that you don't get this either means that my humor is completely lost on you or else i'm just a shitty writer that can't deliver the punchline correctly. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I am the latter.
By the way, to all of you, consider the fact that most people would not have taken notice of this news because many of our expat readers don't really know who Yu Qiuyu is, or many of the controversies surrounding him as as public figure and writer. Which is why I really fail to understand RH's point regarding Yu qiuyu and the fact that he makes money from writing. My point is that Yu must know, as much as anyone else, that cultural production--such as the publishing of books--is part of the market economy, is part of capitalism--and that this tension plays a role in whether or not you have a literary culture worth talking about. Again, we can refer back to the 1930s, when as i mentioned in the post, there was all kinds of lowbrow stuff and audiences eager for it--and this grew into the economies of scale that could sustain the publishing of more avant-garde type writing. However, much of this writing, esp. poetry, went by teh wayside because of the fact that it couldn't survive in the cultural marketplace.
The debate should be on terms such as this, and should not consist in this mindless bashing of all the parties and bars and nightlife that occur in Shanghai. I'm not a big fan or partaker of that stuff, but that's not the point. If you don't spend a lot of time going to exhibits and plays and photo exhibitions, how can you even come up with a reasonable response to the issues at hand?
I'm going to skim quickly past the old argument about what qualifies to be culture. There certainly are more things jockeying for that position than 5,10 years ago, but how are they supported by the law? At the end of the day, there's a peverse Shanghainese satifaction about red stamping things. Money making ventures seem to go only so far before a chop is suddenly required.
I find there are tensions and gaps between what the law presently allows and the immense talent that exists. And I don't even mean talent that is percieved as subversive (although that's a whole other can of worms). I mean talent that wants to perform legally and pay it's taxes on time.
I read an interview with one of the organisers of the Fringe festival where he had to submit each program for review separately. If you want to create an event hosting 20-30 artists, I hope you start early.
Why would a performance permit not allow drums?
How many non-state China based performance groups do you read about? See advertised?
It's always exciting to see a concert by a world class performer in one's city. But how many of those tickets are actually sold? Given away? Given away at the last minute?
The perception that attracting international shows and artists makes a city cultured is slightly flawed. How long do they stay in town? Are they contributing anything lasting to the city?
The administrative nightmare for local groups to do things legally places a stranglehold on a lot of creative projects.
What we seem to be left with is a gap between fledgling (I use the term loosely) local artists and international professional ones that play for a night, then leave. The only solution, if I was a Chinese artist trying to gain experience, would be to go elsewhere.
Perhaps the most creative thinkers, and the ones who will create a Shanghainese culture, will be the ones able to work within the present laws and affect future ones for all artists.
Some interesting ideas. I definately agree Shanghai is nowhere near having the kind of locally produced cultural base, once you take away the international performers who come in for one night (with government support). The permits are definately a big issue, but there is so much more cultural dynamism in Beijing (photographer, essayists, etc), which is also burdened with the same type of government.
Yu raises some good points - too much of the Shanghai identity is drawn from the 1920's and that only accentuates the shallowness and superficiality inherent in the shanghai-ren culture (as opposed to other traditional regional Chinese culutres, such as Suzhou/jiangnan or the whole Guangdong thing)
"Hdp and nanheyangrouchuan don't even bother giving us their opinion about the arts scene or cultural climate here, most likely because they are not watching it, trying to separate wheat from chaff, trying to detect trends, trying to looks for signs of life. Instead, they are indulging in huge generalizations (the only culture is bars, or nanheyangrouchuan's continued bleating about uncouth Chinese habit"
Well, the Cultural Bureau is also looking for signs of cultural life and making sure that "impure" forms don't make it past infanthood, and most of the art shows I've been to are more about looking cool, important and able to afford high priced art.
As for my bleatings, I could bleat on about the expat community. There are more enough stereotypical expats as witnessed by Malone's recent 12 year anniversary.
peijin, have you had another sense of humour bypass or what?
I take time each week to eek out new cultural experiences. I am confident that I have visited every gallery in this city over the past five years and never bought a thing. In the entire Moganshan Lu I can't find one decent work of art. Certainly not for the price they are asking. Musically there is nothing. I have tried to pretend to like the stuff GigShanghai recommends, but it is painful to watch. Theatre is so lame it makes me cry. Contemporary dance is appalling as even Jin Xing notes people prefer to follow tried steps such as ballet (which they perform without passion). The best concerts in town, whether classical or rock, is imported from Russia or the West. There is no street art, no graffiti, no originality in shop designs. People have no fashion sense whatsoever. There are no local designers that would get a seconds notice in Paris. Movies are a bore. Acting is atrocious. Magazines and media are bland versions of overseas product. Shall I go on?
Now, in terms of the cultures Shanghai does really well? Bars, clubs, restaurants, parties, money, decadence, sex, etc ... and thank god for that!
hdp
what makes you think that your jokes are funny in the first place? if you had written your second post as your first one, i might have taken it more seriously. i don't mind jokes or funny comments, though i always _prefer_ when people try to remain somewhat topical and when they try to at least explain some of what they mean as you did in your second comment.
As for the other things--if you read my post, you will realize that i am not saying Shanghai is where it should be, but is work in progress. This is why i say am optimistic.
I don't know if you speak or understand Chinese, but remember that Yu is probably talking about culture, be it books or plays or whatever, that is in Chinese. Not all of the culture in Shanghai is produced in Shanghai, or by Shanghainese, but we do manage to bring in other stuff both in Chinese and English from other parts of the world. I don't know if you read Chinese, but if you don't, how can you really tell what the state of the publishing world or the media is?
Similarly with movies--they're all a bore--well, you know, i have to disagree with that. I would say some, maybe more than half, are bores--but there are also a number of pretty decent movies that get made in China. Some of them are indie, some might be underground, but they exist. You have to go look for them, and you have to be willing to take a chance and delve into them. Some of them will be duds, but there are few gems that might not be life-changing works of art but are at least provoking and worth a couple hours of your time.
With regards to acting--are you watching a lot of TV--some of that acting is indeed atrocious, but if you keep your ear to the ground for what the decent series are, you might find yourself surprised. There are some veteran actors that work both in film, stage and TV and do a decent job.
As far as visual art goes, sorry to hear tht you don't find anything to your liking--for the price--but you don't have to look at it as something to buy. Maybe you ought to consider less whether or not YOU LIKE IT and more what the artist is trying to communicate to the viewer. Even if the work is shit, there is something to be learned about what interests Chinese artists--and why.
This is not a counter-argument to Yu's argument--but if you are not able to access the same kind of culture that he is--and vice versa--then you and he and really talking about different things because you are different types of cultural consumers, despite being located in the same city.
Last but not least, I disagree with your statement about bars. I actually don't like most of the bars here--there's probably less than 10--maybe 5--that i really enjoy being at, and that's in a city that's got probably hundreds if not a thousand places that could be classified as a bar.
Shanghai is a great city and will continue to develop. Yu Qiuyu is right to attack it for its parochialism, but many (all) great cities, including New York and Paris, are parochial to the extent that they see themselves as the center of the universe. Shanghai will develop and expand. Shanghai will be fine. If China is ever to have a "great" city, it will be Shanghai.
As long as Shanghai continues to be chained down with political and social oversight, it won't become anything but a dirtier, more crowded, over-built "suan pan" than it already is. But at least its not some industrial hell like Wuhan.
Point taken but IMHO this city is not a cultural hub, in the traditional sense. It has many other glorious features that make it a great place to live. However I disagree with the sentiment that language is the key to getting a feel for local culture as any non-Catalan speaking tourist to Barcelona will tell you. Truly cultural cities exude their talent and my knowledge of Chinese has not helped that much.
On a somewhat related topic I know a family whose son is a gifted musician who toured the world as a member of the Shanghai youth orchestra. On completing his high school studies he was forced to hand his clarinet to his parents and embark on studies in dentistry, never to play again, because there's no money in music. And they should know best because his father is also a professional musician. There must be enormous pressure on young people to pursue a career rather than their passion.
There is no 'culture' in Shanghai. I suppose the few old people that do morning exercises could *possibly* count a tiny little bit, but generally it has no culture. Just an ant hill of people shouting at each other and buying fake LV, when you boil it down. However, all of us are here, so it must have something ... either that, or you are admitting that you have no culture yourself. Ho hum.
It's not like everywhere in the world has to be Rome though, is it. Shanghai is Shanghai, and at least there is a Chinese writer trying to critically analyse the city. (the Yu Qiu yu guy I mean, not PJ, who does that anyway)
Perhaps we should invite the opinion of someone living in Beijing to comment on this topic? ;-)