American guy learns about hard work, Chinese style

answer:

Nothing can be done. Just don't write blogs unless you want them to be criticised. Do you REALLY give a sh1t what I think? Then why ask the question? Do what you want. But be prepared for what you do to be completely less than average, or average at best.

First to Observer: to me that Mel has mentioned her Chinese descent matters a lot. Mainly because quite a few of the anti-Ben comments here (remind you, not all from Trev) are questioning his motive with respect to him being an expat. So here Mel's ethnicity gives her some authority from a Chinese standpoint. She is simply speaking as a "Chinese" here, not a "Chinese Girlfriend" as some here have interpreted.

...as for my own question to our all-mighty Trev--I'm really confused after reading entries. I need to know what and how should Ben do to match your standard? Or should he just save all the trouble and stay in the Midwest? If so, then WHO is good enough to write blog?

This is a real question and I truly want to know your answer.

@Lin from Fuzhou, do I know you? Does your name happen to begin with a W?

@Mel

I don't know why no one here took some time to comment on your English level Mel. I for one must say "wow" on your fluency. I would even said it's better than mines after 10 years of public education in the States; all the fault lies in me and not my English teachers mind you. :D. How long have you been learning English btw?

@Ben

I know that your month at the barbershop is up, hopefully you will be continuing on to some other worthwhile project for us fans, perferably in my birthplace of Fuzhou.

trev, i also started reading Ben's stuff thinking it would be superficial, a ~rich/educated~ expat trying to ~experience the poors' life~, while knowing very well that he can get out of it and run back to his easy laowai life, teaching english and making more money etc, or even go back to the US if he's -had enough- of china. i wouldn't have said it's ridiculous, just a bit theatrical.

But now that i read more than half of it, and not only the barber shop part, i know my first impression was wrong.

So, thumbs up for Ben and hope he wouls keep coming with good posts.

Trev - you say ~what's the point~ for Ben to do this? i think i can see what his point is, and, to me, it doesn't seem to be to feel good about himself or to show off to others. However, i can't really see what your point is... Ok, we got it, you didn't appreciate his idea. You are entitled to your opinion, which you already expressed. Why keep coming back with it?

You being Chinese does not bother me one bit.

I am so glad I featured in your and Ben's chats - maybe I'll even realise my dream of being featured in the blog! Oh wait, I'm not poor so I'm not 'cool research material' for the bleeding heart cronies.

This is nothing but an ego-massage with less than thrilling 'results' other than "these people are really poor".

Go Trev!

@ Kite

I pay significant taxes, I provide work, income and training to my local employees and I donate to a health-related charity. That's how I contribute. Which is a helluva lot more important than wasting space and resources for immature social experiments.

It's a mint blog, two thumbs up for Ben.

When did I get involved again?? I am not that desperate to use a fake name to stand up for someone. I've made my point and I figured other people's positive comments would sound a lot more convincing than mine.

Trev-

I admit that the first day I read your comments, they really got under my skin. But now, Ben and I were just talking about this, there's no need to take it personal, you're harmless, we should just keep doing what we do best.

Honestly, at this point, "IGNORE TREV" seems like a real wise advice.

BTW, why does me being Chinese bother you so much?

Because it's probably not as 'fun' and 'quirky', and more over, fashionable, to write about poor people unless you write about Chinese people and their supposed 'suffering'.

Sweeping hair for a while and then going home to delivery Nepali Kitchen food gives a little warm glow that you are 'part of the people' etc. etc. etc. bullshyeet etc..

He did not have to leave the States to experience hard labor etc.

Why not to try work cotton fields in Georgia? or join Mexican migrant workers in Texas? or work as a volunteer in Hospital cancer unit? You name it...

It is nothing more than a game when you know you can quit any time....Get the real job, if you can of course...

Xhingyu

Well, if someone spent time as a traffic cop (apart from getting cancer), they would realise that:

- it's really hard work

- the pay is either next to nothing or nothing itself

- they see some corruption every now and then

- some of the traffic guards are mean and moody, some are very entertaining and have really "atypical" thoughts.

There you go, I just saved Ben another 6 weeks of his pointless life!!

"PLEASE IGNORE TREV"

hahahahahahah

Nice try Mel.

You can ignore me of course but you were unable to. But telling others to ignore me....

So you can't stand anyone who has a different opinion that you so you would prefer that it didn't exist. Yep, you're Chinese.

poverty is a polarizing issue.

My lord, how did such an innocent blog become so controversial? Some people really need to lighten up. Blogs are mainly for entertaining and informing the masses, no one said they had to change the world.

I hope Ben does more experiments like that. Maybe he can spend a day as a traffic guard in Shanghai. I've always wondered how they don't go insane directing cranky, uncooperative people in all types of weather.

tony tang, that's the most hilarious entry yet on this site! How old are you, 14? XD

Pete, Shanghai is also the most expensive place to live in China, so it makes sense that salaries would be higher. All these thigns need context.

I stand by my comment- taking out the living wage part did effect the meaning of his blog and make it sound something different to what it was.

greg, please use a spellchecker. pleeeeeeaaaase.

His salary is low compared to people living in Shanghai so I said it was low. If readers want to read more about his wage, they could link on the "low salary" link to have some context or read the two articles linked in the post about how Shanghai residents have the highest salaries in China and that their salaries are slowly on the rise.

In my defence, the Shanghaist did misquote Ben. I dont why, what poitn was tryign to be made? ben makes a point that the low wage these get is actually a lviing wage. He bothered to put it into context.

I just would liek to add, the Shanghaiist has misquoted Ben a bit to try and make some point. Ben does dicuss the wage levels being low, but also adds its a living wage and puts it in context, as it should be. The Shanghaiits needs to accuretly quote the origional source, and not use it selectively to make some point.

PLEASE IGNORE "TREV" AND DO NOT RESPOND TO ANY OF HIS COMMENTS.

THANK YOU.

I made this post yesterday: "Whats the point of this? We make fun of China for tryign egaletarianism (sorry, spelling) under Mao, then we make fun of them for using the market to determine wage levels..."

I must retract my comment. Ive been living here 6 years and while there are some problems here, as there are anywhere, i see many positives. I made the cardinal mistake of not checking out the blog before I made my comment, which is stupid of me.

I assumed the blog would be another making ill informed negative comments about China, but in fact its not doing that at all. It provides a judgemnet free insight into the way thigns work, trying to understand them.

Its a great blog and I aplogise again for myy remarks.

Ben

Your sarcasm is as mundane and mediocre as your 'insights' on China.

Now get back to writing about how poor people are poor.

trev, don't be such a stuck up son of a whore

i'm your host here in china

i'm in charge

and i know people who can make your life really fucking miserable, if you think i am a fanatical hammer and sickle wielding piece of red terror, wait till you see some of my friends

so don't be such a slut

you can start by respecting other people's blogs

Trev-

Thanks for all the comments about my blog. You have no idea how many hits you have generated for me. Please feel free to start a flame war like this on danwei and sinosplice as well. I could really use the publicity Thanks again.

Ben

@plex

Please kindly let us know through what noble undertaking you are making "an actual contribution to Chinese society."

You're not being vaingloriously dramatic, now, are you?

@ yu888

"Some people come to China to experience things and others come to feel superior and often times we end up a bit jaded."

And some of us come to make an actual contribution to Chinese society.

人类学呢

Whats the point of this? We make fun of China for tryign egaletarianism (sorry, spelling) under Mao, then we make fun of them for using the market to determine wage levels, which China has been told by foreigners is the best way to do things, then we make fun of them for it? Isnt it true that in a a capitlaist system the market determiens the wage levels? Given its a developign coutnry, as we all once were, that wage levels for many will be really crappy for a while. Didnt our countries all do this? So whats the fuckign point?

I found Ben's blog a bit of entertaining reading. Isn't that really enough?

I mean, it's not like EVERYTHING everyone does has to have deeper meaning in life, does it? I just wrote a blog post about having lunch at Element Fresh. Did it educate anyone about Element Fresh? probably not, everyone reading my blog has had lunch there.

But I still wrote it. Does my lunch now have no meaning?

I don't get the "we didn't learn anything we already didn't know from it; therefore it is useless" opinion. I really don't.

...and Trev's replies still seem a bit ridiculous, but it appears that in his world, only his opinion matters. Jaded-expat comments are a dime a dozen. Just ignore them.

Some people come to China to experience things and others come to feel superior and often times we end up a bit jaded. We are probably all a bit guilty of all of the above and Ben's blog reminds us all a little of this. Trev's response does also.

One can't argue against someone who cannot see reason in another's actions so why bother? Trev has forgotten more about China that we will ever collectively know...he has probably also forgotten things like ettiquette and manners (giving credit to parents that hopefully taught him all this before.) China can do that to the best of us. So just let it go and instead of commenting on his comments, comment on the blog itself.

It is an interesting experiment that Ben is undertaking for his personal experience. The fact that he shares observations that many readers will never get a chance to see first hand is a very positive thing. Trev, maybe you should try contributing on a positive level? Just a thought.

Interesting blog, nice one Ben for having the idea and the balls. Kinda got mixed feelings as Ben obviously is only doing this for shits and giggles and has an easy out once he's done, unlike the other workers. Still, anything to increase mutual understanding.

So, all-knowing all-seeing "it's-all-obvious" Trev, what of worth/interest have you done lately that you can share with the world?

Two reasons why I pointed out me being Chinese:

- I'm real self-conscious about my English. I didn't want to sound like some dumb chick who can't even write, especially when I was trying to stick up for someone.

- Obviously by being borned and raised in China, I don't find Ben's blog is giving me much new information about how China works, even more so than Trev, I believe. However, I still enjoy reading it, simply because it's quite entertaining.

wow, a super touchy capitalist

what a rare fucking breed

Alright. Many thanks for that.

The blog

remains

ridiculous.

Exeunt.

ok, trev.

"so at least some sanity lies in this article page"...we, our fellow discussants are all insane *ucks.

to lend to your comments the quality of being constructive, you would suggest avenues for improvement, or offer alternatives, neither of which you do. you don't even back up your aguments meticulously.

when i take my time to ask you for a clarification, you resort to saying your comment is irrelevant.

>

and i said you "come across as.." btw as opposed to saying you "are"

pheow!

"do you have anything better to do with your time than to comment on us wasting our time......etc"

Obviously not.

Why is it a racist pot-shot? There was absolutely not need for her to mention that she is Chinese, but it says a lot about her. ho-hum.

There is no point trying to defend it. It is mildly amusing that I say I think it is riduculous then people "argue" with me.

I don't care what they think about it - I am stating my opinion about it so that at least some sanity lies in this article page.

Is there a website in Shanghai for adults? Wait, don't answer that.

Do you guys have anything better to do with your time than assail this guy's project and take racist pot-shots girlfriend? Obviously not.

@mel,

Why preface that you are Chinese? Does this lend credibility? Does it make a difference? I love how people always refer to their "Chinese" girlfriend or wife. Good for you, we have another cliche here... groundbreaking, Yoko.

Why do you care what I mean - I am just one hell of a cock, after all.

Just ignore me and you can all feel good about yourselves and warm inside and righteous.

I will refer to my comments as constructive criticism.

Mr/Ms Trev

you come across as a hell of a cock. what do you mean "more vice?"

your flaming comments, don't refer to them as constructive criticism.

The reason is to be an honest voice saying that there is no point and he can find out nothing that everyone does not already know.

Going to the hairdressers tells me all I need to know, it's called "intelligence". Not one tiny comment in his blog did I not already realise just from watching these workers.

So my constructive criticism is stop doing this immediately and get into something that has a little more vice or anything much more complex than "these people are poor".

He majored in anthropology in college, which explains why he is interested in finding out the reasons behind little things people take for granted. He loves writing and journalism, and he believes in first hand information. If this is not the way some people look at things, I can understand.

I'd love to see criticism like "your writing is not good enough", "your articles don't have enough depth", or"find out more, dig harder", cause it's constructive and for a reason. Somehow that trev dude's comments just don't make much sense to me (or to most other readers).

Yes, I was PISSED and I stand by it.

Not really, Matt. I am not putting any emotion into it. Ben's ladyfriend is "PISSED!" that someone thinks Ben's 'writing' is ridiculous.

Let's all look forward to Ben's next fascinating comment! Could it be:

- Chinese people drink tea and eat rice?

- Haircuts are cheap in China!

- There is a little bit of corruption everywhere (oh wait he said that one - check that off the list)

- They don't earn much money (wait - got that one too)

Maybe he'll tell us that Chinese people have black hair and are sometimes patriotic but in a complex and intruiging way. The mind boggles.

Trev,

"I have forgotten more things about China than he will learn there. Not that that is important."

If it's not important, then why mention it? Other than idle boasting, I guess.

"You obviously care about strangers opinions and need to grow up a bit (as does Benny).

This comment could equally apply to you, my friend.

Mel... YOU GO GIRL!

Trev... you made your point. Now go away.

Ben... love what your writting about.

CJ

Oh and btw, the fact that you are "pissed" is completely ridiculous. You obviously care about strangers opinions and need to grow up a bit (as does Benny).

Cheers.

Mel... "fascinating" ... he has told us

- lots of fujianese go abroad illegally for more money

- his 'colleagues' get paid nothing at all and live quite tough lives.

You are of course biased and your opinion does not matter to me, as mine may not matter to you.

I have forgotten more things about China than he will learn there. Not that that is important.

I think it is completely ridiculous. You have your opinion. The end.

Trev, this is Ben's girlfriend (chinese). After reading your comments, I have to say...I am PISSED!

"Getting noticed" was not why he did it. It is just what happens when anyone does something cool and does it well. The barbershop thing is certainly not the best idea of the year. I bet many of you (I mean westerners living in China) once thought of doing things like that. However, how many of those who have the thought actually have the balls to do it, plus enough language skills, no problem eating 4 kuai cafeteria food every meal, and enthusiastic, determined and concentrated enough to follow through it? ... Honestly, very few. Ben, on the other hand, happens to possess all the qualities above. If that's how he gets noticed, I'll say he deserves all the notice he's got and all the notice he will get.

You can tell I am probably his biggest fan. As a girlfriend, I'm really glad to see that so many people support what he's doing...so thank you guys.

And Trev, I think it's a shame that you can't appreciate his facsinating work ... but no matter what a cynic you are, I ain't let nobody talking shit about my boyfriend!

What can you "take from it". Maybe you find it hard to say what you take from it? Other than a sense of feeling good about yourself because you are reading about poor people while you sip your macchiato.

Trev, as I said, it's only what you take from it, and in your case, obviously, that wouldn't be very much.

What Ross is doing is most certainly better than your bitching it on Shanghaiist!

From his real blog:

"This is exactly what Adam and many other Fuzhou people are thinking when they look for opportunities to go abroad. Either way, he will be working 70 hours a week and living in cramped living quarters. It’s just a matter of whether he will be making 50 cents an hour or $6.50."

Wow! "FASCINATING!"

He has learnt that people try to migrate illegally to earn more money!

.....

"Or what would it be like to work 12 hours per day soldering circuits in some sweaty factory?"

IT WOULD BE REALLY REALLY HARD WORK!

writing about it just to seek attention is pointless.

I can see his last blog entry now:

"Wel, I finish my last day at yin qing salon. I have to say that I have learnt that life is really not easy for the 'have-nots'. I learnt a lot about myself, as well. I pushed myself hard and by gum I swept a lot of hair. I made some great friends (big shout out to xiao ding!) and I will definitely keep in touch with them if I ever go down xin hua west rd. again."

He will achieve NOTHING.

Anyway, I think it's pathetic, other people think something else, so be it.

Anyone with an iota of intelligence can figure out that life is hard, the hours long, and the pay minimal performing menial labour in the developing world.

But what is this geezer actually contributing?

I'm paying taxes, patronising local businesses, training my colleagues and growing a business that employs and promotes local talent.

I'm sick of all the low life foreign scum who only come here to entertain themselves and their juvenile friends back home on frivolous blogs. These boring and unkempt low-lives who come here for the cheap beer, cheap hash and cheap sex. Who stroll about this city looking like something the cat dragged in and insulting the locals with their fake curiosity and friendliness.

Sweeping hair in a salon! Get a life you silly twit and wipe that smarmy grin off your fugly face.

Trev,

Consider that the vast majority of China expat blogs (mine included) consist mainly of pithy observations from an uninformed point of view, I for one think what Ben's doing is fascinating and is attracting the attention that it deserves.

DP,

Fetishizing poverty? Ben isn't saying that the poverty among Chinese people is "cool" or that he wishes he could imitate his colleagues in the barbershop. In fact, he isn't really opining much at all. He's working and writing what he sees and hears, nothing else.

I don't understand your hostility towards this guy. Have you never wondered what it is like to be on the other side? Inability to empathize...well, that would make you a sociopath, wouldn't it? I've read that about 1/20 people are.

If you were among the slave-owning class in ancient times, would you have no curiosity for the life of a slave? Granted, that is only an analogy, and barber-shop kids aren't slaves, and they presumably have it better than say, the girls who work in massage parlors and rub feet for some cut of RMB30/hour, live eat and sleep at the place, and only have national holidays off. Or what would it be like to work 12 hours per day soldering circuits in some sweaty factory? In a more extreme case, what would it be like to live in a Chinese prison for month? Certainly, not what you're accustomed to.

Some are lucky enough to have latitude in choosing their experience, and what they learn from it is their choice. Granted, what Ben Ross is doing is not terribly adventurous (he could go farm sheep in Gansu or go fish-poaching in the Philippines), but his experience is incredibly common for Chinese youth and it would be difficult to leave the job without a greater understanding for the Chinese, their lifestyle, and why they think and behave as they do. What are the common that they face, what are their hopes and opportunities, etc.

So, I you can't call it a fetish, because there is utility in what Ross is doing (beyond the hair-sweeping, toilet cleaning tasks of his actual employment), and he's gained some minor celebrity only by having the creativity and humility to seize upon an opportunity that is obvious and available to anyone. So there.

Indeed, one does not require United States citizenship to be a moron - that much is true.

I am glad for Ben that he has found fellow pretenders who enjoy rubbing their chins are saying "so true, so true".

So, Ben's intrepid experiment shows us that;

It is not easy work sweeping up hair all day !

Grrreat.

Ben's little field trip to a hard luck life is simply another way middle class white people fetishize poverty. The whole stunt is totally patronizing to every worker he poses next to for a blog photo. In the end, my hunch is that Ben will go back a pretty sweet existence--a "cushy life in the ‘burbs'" (from Ben's blog bio)--compared to those he’s ‘working’ with, while their struggle to move up in life will be a ‘bitch’ on a scale of which Ben will never know.

One of the always brilliant and insightful Shanghaiist commenters compared Ben’s third-rate social experiment to John Howard Griffin’s “Black Like Me” experience in the 1950s American South. There’s a slight difference. Griffin actually passed as black and fully assimilated himself into black culture, whereas Ben is merely whitey slumming. Someone should beat his ass and take his lunch money.

I am not the writer of the blog. I am sure Ben can attest to that.

And much like the others who have responded to you Trev, I just like the blog and felt I was gaining insight into the culture of the people around me. That is why I thought your comment was harsh and unnecessary. As they continue to be.

what a douche-bag

There are just as many ignorant, rednecks in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand as there are in the US, and generally, I find the American-bashers among them are usually the more uneducated and less sophisticated individuals (that is, unless you think that being non-American makes you sophisticated). Making generalisations about 300+ million people with massively diverse backgrounds is foolish.

Moving on, I really admire this guy for having the pure cajones for doing what he's doing, and he is having a genuinely unique experience that almost no western people will ever know. In my view, it shows boldness and curiosity that is unique among expats, who as a group, tend to keep away from the locals -- that is of course, unless they're cleaning your toilet, cooking your food, driving your cab, or otherwise doing what you will not or cannot do.

Realistically, how can one really appreciate earning less than two dollars per hour? Do you really know what the average person in China experiences, their daily struggles, the indignity of being virtually worthless to society and frequently being treated as such, and having virtually no chance of ever succeeding?

Dismiss it as a ploy for attention if you like, but for one, I applaud Mr. Ross' project.

I love Ben's blog. What is the point? What was the point of the book Black Like Me? The point of that book and of Ben's blog is to teach us (as best as is possible) what it is like to be in someone else's shoes. Read the blog and if you do not find it fascinating, come back and say so.

oh, i'm non-american also. i chose well.

There are a number of good reasons I can think of ...

We all need reminders from time to time about how different people live.

Another one, this is a great insight into a new market for my company that's trying to sell products to consumers in cities like Fuzhou. Now I have a better idea what they can afford.

Dunno Trev, I for one enjoy reading the blog, mainly because, as a non-mandarin speaker and relatively new person to China, it gives me an insight into something I've always wondered about (just how the heck the five thousand barber shops on my street stay in business), as well as other aspects I wouldn't consider (the post about high-level government officials not having to pay in return for tax breaks) from a perspective I can relate to. I'm not saying a Chinese person couldn't write just as insightful a blog on a similar subject, it's just that they would be less likely to comment on certain aspects that might interest a foreigner.

Sure, he's going to walk away after a month and earn more money than his current colleagues could dream of, but that's not the point. He's not trying to tell us first-hand how difficult it is to be an employee in one of these places. What he is doing is getting close to his subject matter, and therefore writing something interesting. Much more interesting than the countless hacks who spout about China, and surely a vital ingredient of good journalism.

It's true that anyone could do it in a sense, but not everyone would join the dots or write something as interesting.

Oh yeah, and just as it seems to matter to you, I'm a 'non-American' person. And I'm not yet a ho.

dude, trev,

in my view you are the somewhat pathetic one. of course the guy wants to get noticed, since he makes a blog. but there is more to it.

have you heard of intellectual growth? personal development? etc.

to me it seems rather obvious that one can learn a lot from such an experience, that one's perspective on many things would change.

the point is to change his life, and the life of others possibly.

"experiment cum science", bro

To investigate it?

He can learn that it's hard work.

Why do you care about my comment and why comment on it?

I suppose as a non-pretentious and non-American person I have humility and do not see sense in trying to 'get noticed' but see it as entirely PATHETIC and shameful. It's easy. Anyone can dop it and it will not show anything interesting. If he wants to do something entertaining and interesting he should be a male ho for a while - then he can see a sect of society that is more interesitng than sweeping hair and eating rice for lunch.

By the way, Kris, it's obvious that you are the writer of the blog.

Pathetic pathetic pathetic.

What is the point?

To do something interesting. To investigate that lifestyle and report on it to share with others what you have learned. Maybe there is even a bit of testing himself to see how he handles living like that.

I have been really enjoying following his experiment and if I wasn't a new father in need of money to support my family I can think of a few similar experiences I would love to try.

But even if his point was to 'get noticed' I would ask, why do you care? Why even make the comment? His blog is certainly one of the best pieces of amateur journalism about China that I have seen. So why shouldn't he be noticed? Hell, maybe he wants to be noticed so he can get some sort of reporting gig. What would be wrong with that? Honestly I am confused by why you asked that question.

It is a great blog I enjoy reading. I hope he has another idea to go with after his month is up.

Bob - I know what he wants to do.

That doesn't answer the question of WHAT IS THE POINT? What will it show/prove/achieve?

I get it. I harvested wheat for 12 days last year (and I'm going to do it againg very soon) in Anhui.

It was an eye opener for me since my staff are from Anhui. The village I stayed in consisted of about 120 households.

An awesome experience.

Good on you Ben!

CJ

But what is the point of it?

He wants to live like common people, do whatever common people do etc

This is a great idea! But thank god someone else is doing it for us. I just wonder if he'll double his wages with ads on his blog?

damn. 600rmb a month. and i thought i was doing bad being an american "working" here for 2000rmb a month. but to be fair, my days are usually 14+hour days, along with some 36 hour days. i've been here for 8 weeks and have had exactly 3 days off. but at least my company gives me two meals a day... ;)

But what is the point of it?

To prove that they get low pay? Everyone knows this and knows that it's slave work and tough.

Or, more likely, the purpose is to 'get noticed' and to fill another blog about China with more stuff about China?