Shanghaiist: Wei Hui, Bai Ling and Shanghai Baby, two peas in a pod?

nanheyangrouchuan

Sat, 09 Jun 2007 01:04:27 +0800

Regarding FBIB, most of those women are forced to go after local men because the foreign men don't want them. And few marriages between western girls and local guys have any legs, especially between western girls of Asian heritage.

Trev

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:45:47 +0800

'Babes in Beijing' was a piece of propaganda at the time, which showed, entirely falsely, that Chinese men in China can get western women. At we all agree that Shanghai Baby, though detestable, has an element of undeniable truth to it. "China seduces the west" = over-weight Americans take lots of photos of the Great Wall?

Andrew

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:16:32 +0800

Interesting comments. You people seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Inspired by Dan's blog on Shanghai Baby, on my own blog shanghaijournaldotsquarespacedotcom I posted a comparison between SB and "Foreign Babes in Beijing," which is also due out soon as a film. Some intriguing parallels here. Both are about female sexuality in late 1990s urban China. Both were turned into books and then into screenplays by the authors. Yet SB is about a Chinese girl getting seduced by a Western man, and FBIB is about a Western girl getting seduced by Chinese men (both in her TV show and in reality). My premise: In Shanghai, the West seduces China. In Beijing, China seduces the West.

Trev

Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:15:38 +0800

750 million Chinese are self-subsistent farmers - got a story about them?

Bob Chippens

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:55:13 +0800

...ok, perhaps I stretched it a bit there.

Bob Chippens

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 11:43:47 +0800

hollywood, Thomas, I think you're onto something there. Maybe combine the two ideas and roll in some Hitchcockian twists and sprinkle on a bit of King... Cute Manhattanite banking girl comes to Shanghai on an expat posting, IPO moves her to a town plagued by chilling swarms of flying penises and vaginas. She falls in love with a semi-illiterate entreprenuer who helps her 'escape' by sneakily selling her to the lord of the swarm, 'an international DJ', in return for a place on the judges panel of the next pop idol... which is subsequently attacked and eaten by the swarm.

Thomas Barker

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 07:58:20 +0800

RomCom: Cute 30-something Manhattanite banking girl comes to Shanghai on an expat posting, an IPO moves her to a small town near Chengdung to her utter disgust. Slowly falls in love with semi-literate village entreprenuer (fakes DVDs and runs sweatshops) who's company she's floating?

hollywood

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 02:57:12 +0800

OK, guys, let's stop arguing over this shit. Bob, you want cheesy? How about a film like the "crouching tiger" but only with flying penises and vaginas?

nanheyangrouchuan

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 01:21:55 +0800

The best thing about this movie is that it is not the fake, over done, big costume ancient culture shlock stamped and approved by the overlords for global consumption. Like it or not, this book and movie do portray images of real life and real people in Shanghai (and by similarity also shenzhen, BJ, suzhou, hangzhou, guangzhou and recently tianjin, chengdu, chongqing, etc as they open up. Time to look in the mirror. All that is missing is the foreigner embezzling company funds, selling his/her company's IP or selling his nation's military technology for personal profit and we've got the China expat community.

Bob Chippend

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:36:27 +0800

Your ideas sound interesting to me, dont get me wrong, it's just not money-spinning. And I do think we've all got our own little dodgy China story (secret service or not) that would serve as good entertainment to those with a genuine interest in China. I've only ever come accross versions of Devils on the Doorstep with no English subtitles, and my Chinese aint quite good enough. Bah! Culturally defning movies... I'm going to have to have a think about that, still... 'plex is a douche', why 'shame' on Bai Ling and the author for writing a representation that exists, even though it isn't the norm? What kind of flowery, heaven-scented portrayals (such girls are about as common in Shanghai as the girl portrayed in the book) are you looking for?

Trev

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:30:55 +0800

Bob, well, I just flew out some ideas at 1am in the morning - don't expect much! You are right thata movie can't represent an entire country of course .... and 'all but the most sheltered expats' are privvy to secret service stories? Are you kidding? Alright then --- it seems that we agree that very simply, why doesn't someone write a script for a movie about a very interesting story that happens to a Chinese person in China. As long as there are no cliches, stereotypes or other bilge, it will be grrrreat. I haven't seen many good Chinese films - the ones that are 'recommended' by critics are awful - Little Red Flowers was idiotic. One of the best filsm I have seen is a Chinese film that is banned here, and can be bought on fake DVD - 'Devils on the doorstep'. F*ck me that is an AMAZING film. Amazing script. Amazing acting. Amazing cinematography. Great story. You must see this film if you haven't already.

plex is a douche

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 16:34:06 +0800

first off, plex is a douche. second, i agree with zat. shit movie, shit book, lousy representation of shanghai, shanghainese women, and chinese women in general. shame on the author and shame on bai ling.

Bob Chippens

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:44:27 +0800

"Well ...... nothing about the laowai in China is either interesting or un-cliched." To you, perhaps. Most people back home have no clue about laowai in China. And I would be interested in such movies, if only to see the portrayal. Are movies about Somalian refugees in Germany uninteresting and cliched? Emigrants to Australia a hundred years ago? Young Chinese people studying abroad in the 1800s? All cliched and uninteresting? It depends what you already know. You're ideas are those of everyday Chinese living, sprinkled with some possibly interesting annecdotes, things that all but the most sheltered expats here see on a daily basis. Interesting? Perhpaps. Explain China and Chinese people... that a tough task for a movie. Even a 3-year university course on China, if such a thing existed, would be a stereotype, a generalisation, without actually coming here and living it. Now the problem is that you are a Hollywood director looking to make a movie to make money in the western cinemas (read: USA). Sex (and violence) sells, hence the cookie cutter garbage Hollywood churns out. It is extremely hard to sell movies and generate interest based the daily mundane existance of peoples lives, no matter how arty or insightful you make it. "There are simply lots of good stories about the tiny ways in which people live their lives and there are certain small events and conversations which inexplicably describe Chinese and Chinese people perfectly.".... ...which is sterotyping and generalising itself - you can describe a select few Chinese people, the impresion that would come out the other end of the movie is still a stereotype, e.g. Chinese kids shit in pavements, the goverment represses all its citizens, etc.. The only way people can truely understand another culture and country is to live there and expereince it. Then we see that not all Chinese people do martial arts, not all Americans are racist gun-carriers, not all eskimos live in igloos, and not all Irishmen play the bagpipes. I am struggling to think of even one movie, and I watch a lot of all types, that has given me any truly great insight/general accurate impression into a country and it's people. I was completely surprised the first time I went to Australia, the first time I went to the USA, and the first time I came to China, no matter the movies/books I saw/read before arriving. In short, movies are movies, not a rubber-stamped 100% accurate version of reality. The best we can do is laugh at the stereotypes people make of us and laugh at those who believe them without seeing things with their own eyes. Now, less knicker-twisting and more good movie recommendations, please :)

Trev

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 07:41:28 +0800

Well ...... nothing about the laowai in China is either interesting or un-cliched. There are simply lots of good stories about the tiny ways in which people live their lives and there are certain small events and conversations which inexplicably describe Chinese and Chinese people perfectly. Of course, you were tongue in cheek about "who knows everything there is to know about China", as of course I have never professed to being owner of such a feat, or anything near. I know a story about a Chinese man who is amazing at maths and worked for the Chinese secret service but he was sick of using his brain in such a formulaic way and travelled but he is tracked and never entirely left alone. I love little sequential stories; You know those strobe lights on nanjing road - some of them had to be moved at not a small expense because an old man asked a few to be moved -- he had had his dinner in exactly the same place on the table for the last 15 years, but one of the new lights was now right in his view and made him go crazy every dinner time - he wrote to the gov. and they moved the lights. The waiters in the Xinjiang restaurant on fuzhou road lead interesting lives and are atypical. Go one block behind the huge skyscrapers and you will see the hole in the wall shops, sometimes with some newspaper outside on the floor - that's for their little kids to go and poo on and then they throw it away because they don't have toilets. A true story about a Chinese boy insisting that his relatives use his english name is not ground-breaking but could be entertaining. The same thing with the division of wealth - I saw some old fat Chinese guy falling asleep in rush hour in the back of his driven merc - this was morning time and everything was going crazy - he started to nod off, mouth open, and his head slowly lolled onto the headrest. I would love for someone to film that. In fact the film would be best taking about 8 stories and clipping between them in this way, i.e. when each person passes the other in the street they can switch-over stories. Not new or unique, but some way to pack everything from this city into 2 hours. There is a lot to see - more than some people having sexual intercourse with other people. The laowai in China's only role in these filsm should be to show what a moronic, naive, useless and generally whiney lot we really are. Negative things are a must, as are the positive.

Bob Chippens

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 00:09:34 +0800

Well, this is what a large part of the movie industry is about - picking up 'interesting' stuff and making sterotypes out of them. As most Chinese people will tell you, all French men are romantic and there are daily shootouts on every street corner in the USA. So, what kind of movies do you think WOULD make an interesting story on China, either the 'laowai in china' thing or China in general? Would you mind these being negative portrayals as well as positive? Trev in particular as you've now slated the barbershop dude and now this story, and haven't offered a single idea of your own... poor for someone who knows everything there is to know about China ;) Let's hear em.

Zat

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:44:54 +0800

I wouldn't bother with idiots who generalize people based on a trashy movie or a novel, but it's the those produce these stereotype crap to feed the western fantasy that bothers me. True that those stories are rampant, but the fact the majority of many many more interesting people they choose to ignore annoys me.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:56:46 +0800

I don't know about how Europeans will take this movie in Europe, but poor Zat will be dismayed to know that Americans will eat this movie up because it is not a big costume, state approved ancient culture flick but because this movie and the book are a much better look at China now and the foreigners in China now. And people like me will simply fuel the curiosity of Americans who've seen the movie but never lived in or visited China by adding our own stories and elaborating on the details for extra spice. Let 1000 stereotypes bloom!

Lu

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:41:25 +0800

Looks like a bad, bad movie. And how stupid is it to make a movie about Shanghai (China), with Chinese actors... talking English to one another that is so bad that they can't even get the Chinese names right?! 'Tyan-tyan'? Makes me cringe. You'd think a movie of that book could only be better than the book itself, yet they manage to make it even worse.

Trev

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:01:17 +0800

But lots of people eat McDonalds in Shanghai. It doesn't make it worthwhile making a movie out of people chomping down a McSomething. Just because (non-)boobs are involved, it doesn't make it worth filming a Chinese girl being done by a German like a barn door banging in the wind. There are much MORE INTERESTING things happening that might actually interest people.

Bob Chippens

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:19:06 +0800

I'm with socialB and anony on this - all sorts of movies are made about all sorts of crap, positive and negative portrayals, truthful and stereotypical. Nothing much to get your knickers in a twist about, especially when Shanghai has as much of this kind of stuff going on as any other place in the world... maybe more.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:22:55 +0800

I'm sure the same arguments occurred when Elvis shock his hips and when Little Richard wore make-up and screamed. Chinese culture needs a wake-up call to the realties of human emotion and lust.

T.

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:06:30 +0800

who are these idiots that keep giving Bai Ling work? Someone please make her go away.

Orpheus

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:01:46 +0800

"I saw two nipples on a rib." Is it just me, or pure coincidence, or isn't some irony meant with "two peas in a pod"?

Orpheus

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:59:45 +0800

Typo again: "America". When can Shanghaiist allow editing of one's own post? Of course, better start with less careless typing ;-)

Orpheus

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:56:55 +0800

Sorry for the typo: "contemporary". One last word: with all the above said, I agree with Anony that "the only people who would base a single character in a movie/book on a whole culture of people are the people who are too stupid to care about their opinion in the first place." Sure thing. On the other hand, Zat is entitled to her frustration. To have her not to worry about the negative portrayal of Shanghainese women is perhaps not unlike asking African Americans not to feel upset about US media's fix on violent black gansters, leaving out the overwhelming majority of hardworking middle-class and working-class blacks in American.

Orpheus

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:49:22 +0800

I am all for documenting on film what's going on at a certain time in a certain locale, no matter how unpleasant it may look. The question is if Wei Hui's portrayal of Shanghai SAF (single Asian female) really captures the spirit of the place and time. I think not. The book sells because it plays to male fantasy in the West and "shock value" at home. Instead of being a tribute to the new individualism of women in contenporary Chinese society, it is a sell-out with a shrewd eye on the market. Bai Ling......give me a break. She is hardly worth a serious mention in "polite society" or in porn circle. The queen of obvious cheapness.

hdp

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:34:32 +0800

LOL @ GWB "I saw two nipples on a rib."

anony

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:25:28 +0800

So everytime a movie comes out with a white guy portrayed as a villian, can I whine and complain on a blog, too? Who cares how Shanghai Baby makes Shanghainese women look. The only people who would base a single character in a movie/book on a whole culture of people are the people who are too stupid to care about their opinion in the first place.

SocialB

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:43:13 +0800

Hmm..yes - shite book. And probably shite movie. But, hey - if these stories are rampant in Shanghai, then I guess the movie is reflecting what is going on in Shanghai. Why not make a movie about it? I mean - movies are made about all sorts of crap. Sure, it's not a side that reflects nicely on Shanghainese women, but just because it's not nice, doesn't mean it shouldn't be made. There are lots of films made that don't reflect nicely on all sorts of people. Scarier is the need to discuss Bai Ling's breasts. Sure, she shows them a lot, but umm...there's a lot of shagging in the book. Anyway, so what if she has very little? Some women do, some women don't. And the word slut..c'mon...if she was a man, she'd be a stud or a legend...

Trev

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:43:47 +0800

faintatheart, thomas, gwb... you guys crack me up!

GWB

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:28:37 +0800

Thomas, porn on Bittorrent is the way to go. Cleavage? What cleavage? Have you seen the preview? I saw two nipples on a rib.

Thomas

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 05:29:50 +0800

Reading Shanghai Baby was like being trapped in the corner of a trendy bar with a trust fund girl pouring out her personal angst from 8 til late. As in life, seeing some clevage might turn it into a pleasant experience. Or I could just download porn on Bittorrent?

faintatheart

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 03:51:54 +0800

I had a date with my toilet immediately after watching the preview. I've seen better tits on a cow! Bai Ling is known for being outrageously trash in Hollywood and it feeds into the stereotypical image of Asian women in western cultures. That's why she can't get serious roles anymore. Wei Hui & Bai Ling, two deep fried rotten egg rolls seeking entry into the drooling mouth of horny white men. Oh, the stench of desperation!

Ripple

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:44:54 +0800

I thought every slutty girl in Shanghai has had an affair with at least one German dude. Those Volkswagen boys have been here far longer than the rest of us. Fuck one (Shanghai girl) hard enough and I bet she yelps "Oh Klaus!"... etc. Bai Ling has a busted grill, but her nipples are awfully nice... http:// singleasianmale.com/ wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Bai_Ling_731200514727PM412.jpg

Perri

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:07:50 +0800

What a shame!!!

rado

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:09:19 +0800

it can't be any worse than the postmodern life of my aunt, cheer up

Trev

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:50:24 +0800

Carl - you didn't hear of the 'boob-clause'? How do you think she got well known?

Carl

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:38:13 +0800

Does Bai Ling always insist that she gets naked twenty-two times per movie? Is it a contractual thing? It seems that in all of her movies she shows her boobs off as much as possible.

Trev

Thu, 31 May 2007 19:15:42 +0800

Completely agree, Zat. Plex - Zat is not only saying that exist but that they are "rampant" - it doesn't make it a good reason to make a film about it! And "go back to white" - what an idiotic comment. Of all the genuinely interesting stories that happen in Shanghai every day, they make a film about a Chinese woman being screwed by a white man.

123

Thu, 31 May 2007 18:53:12 +0800

that movie looks terrible.. the acting, the accent, you gotta be kidding me

plex

Thu, 31 May 2007 18:46:22 +0800

Get a grip Zat. You can't whitewash the reality that people like Coco exist. Just a pity there aren't more individualistic and interesting women like her in Shanghai; rather than the plethora of subservient, gold-digging, cover-their-mouth-when-they-love immature clones that make most guys go back to white once the novelty wears off.

vadaga

Thu, 31 May 2007 18:19:17 +0800

Shite book--->shite movie I'll pass...there plenty more engaging things to do now that the weather's good. The idea that a movie might someday be made called 'Chinabounder Does Shanghai' is somehow perversely funny.