Shanghaiist: Tibet Update: Press freedom, Nancy Pelosi and an ensuing PR battle

vladivostok

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:03:51 +0800

Lime without this tree, Der Spiegel nor stand, no one was on, where dust Anger I see da light, sista!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bamboos

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:20:40 +0800

For those who can read Chinese, pls refer to below. (i know it is easy to say, difficult to be...) For those who cannot read Chinese, pls accept my apology that my English is not good enough to translate them. 身是菩提树，心为明镜台。时时勤拂拭，勿使惹尘埃 ===>>> 菩提本无树，明镜亦非台，本来无一物，何处惹尘埃 -- Lime without this tree, Der Spiegel nor stand, no one was on, where dust Anger (translated from Google, not good, but OK.)

bamboos

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:03:07 +0800

Well, seems my post did irritate some of you. I have no intention to argue with you, because i am not good at debating, and it takes too much time on typing up... You people are right, Feeling like victim can not sort out anything. I think China was a loser for around 150 years. however, every nation has ups and downs(US may be the exception), that is alright to be loser, as far as we knows how and why we lost, and do not make the same mistakes again. Regarding the global citizen/international power topic, i am in doubt how many Chinese want to be that kind of role. China is not so ambitious. As far as economic is good, territory isnot separated, we consider it to be a golden age and we are satisfied. ...emm...Maybe i am narrow-minded...? i think industry globalization is only a business topic not political one, right?

paintingrainbowsblack

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:36:50 +0800

CIA behind riots in Tibet

jiminycricket

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:56:29 +0800

Alec, I have been pondering while many responses of late (insult, victimization, vitriol - in that order)have been so distasteful but I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's hard to feel compassion or concern when you're always the victim. For those of you on this site (richardlee, concor1, et al) who post with such virulent anger and contempt for all ideas but those streaming from Zhong Nan Hai straight to Xinhua - open your eyes and ears. This isn't personal, it's political. Those of us who do not support China's stance on Tibet do not hate China. The Western media isn't trying to ruin your Olympics. This isn't like getting picked on at the playground. Welcome to the real world of international scrutiny. It's part and parcel to becoming an international power. And while you might be able to shield yourself from criticism from within, you cannot and will not be able to censor the outside world. Grow up.

Alec

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:43:12 +0800

So, paid government shill, crazy, or due to his educational upbringing simply unable to think critically? Concor, thanks for illustrating my points so well.

vladivostok

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:41:03 +0800

concor1: We hear you. But try shouting less. Your audience might actually hear you better?

concor1

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:18:25 +0800

nancy ! you are an absolute disgrace to intelligence of the world. in your world, killing, seting fires, buring shops , buring ppl to death is "peaceful demonstration", if you, expect to be part of the world and be respected, you must act as responsible citizen of the world! you are beyond belief!

concor1

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:14:10 +0800

are you guys automatically blind? there are hundreds of pics showing the mobs arsons, attack innocent ppl by knives and stones, there are already 300 arsoning cases.. all the pics shows the mobs attacked high school, elementary school, banks, shops, news agency etc..and the CNN,BBC still take that as "peaceful demonstration"? why cnn, bbc r on the defend of murders? why cnn, bbc dont condemn those mobs who violated human rights severely by burning children to death? The BBC Charter and its Producers Guidelines state:...impartiality lies at the heart of the BBC. All programs and services should be open minded, fair and show a respect for truth?[BBC reports should] contain comprehensive, authoritative and impartial coverage of news and current affairs in the United Kingdom and throughout the world. How does the BBC measure up to its charter? liers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nanheyangrouchuan

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:45:50 +0800

China loves to point out how it has been "victimized" while conveniently forgetting how it has made victims of plenty of other people. It's always about China ya know. What a crap hole country and society.

Alec

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:28:34 +0800

Oh, and for the record Bamboo, regarding what you said about Xinhua reprinting Western articles without Chinese commentary . . . that is patently false. I often see articles that have appeared elsewhere (like CNN, NY Times) that have had entire passages cut out that could be construed as negative towards China. Lots of those articles you read from 'agencies' have been carefully edited, just like the old maps in your history books as a child were edited to include T-bet and Xinjiang.

Alec

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:33:11 +0800

Bamboos - here is why I am frustrated. I have never, ever read a comment by a Chinese citizen that empathizes with anyone harmed by China's actions. On any topic. Poisoned children, poisoned pets, occupation of areas that do not want to be occupied, business ties with corrupt, horrific regimes - - I occasionally read comments from Chinese netizens attacking Chinese actions towards other Han Chinese - land seizures, fake products that kill people (baby milk, blood), official corruption - but never, ever do I find a Chinese person online who apologizes or sympathizes with those hurt by China. The Chinese love to be the victim. It seems ingrained in your psyche that the rest of the world is out to oppress China, and that nothing China is blamed for could ever, ever be China's fault. It is all 'Western bias' that T-betans and muslims want independence. It is 'Western bias' that uncovers China's deadly products (since Xinhua would have you believe there are just as many cases of Western products hurting people). It is 'Western bias' for suggesting that China is wrong for blocking UN resolutions to resolve ethnic conflicts. Just once I want to see a Chinese netizen post - 'yes, sorry that our government supports the government in Khartoum' or 'yes, it is a problem that T-betans are not happy being part of China, and that we have failed them in that respect'. But I never, ever hear it. It's always excuses, excuses, excuses. Now, I'm an American. But I was vehemently against the war, and I have stayed that way to this day. I will rant about neo-cons and Bush if given the chance. Yes, there is some biased western press. But Xinhua is far, far worse - not biased, actual LIES, and the Chinese accept it and refuse to apply their conscious or reason to what they read. They simply parrot what their government has told them since they were young. THAT is what is frustrating. The INABILITY to read more than one viewpoint and develop your own, nuanced interpretation. Yes, a CNN article might be biased. That is why I read BBC, Economist, CNN, NY Times, IHT, Slate, and yes, even China Daily before coming to my conclusions. China Daily is by far - by far - the worst, and most Chinese online commentators align themselves almost in lockstep with what I read there. It's funny, I've talked with friends who are married to Chinese locals or have very close friends here and they say that the comments online are extremists - but then where are the moderates? The ones that can empathize with non-Han Chinese and be true global citizens? Where are the non-victims who can take responsibility for their country's actions?

bamboos

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:49:32 +0800

I am a Chinese, and I really like this Shanghaiist website, because it provides opinions from different sides. Here, I hope I can answer some above questions. Alec, pls do not be terrified only if those points are not the same as yours. it is the good sides of west free media which I, and many Chinese, always admire. If more media can hold their moral standard and code of ethics, checking the information and telling the stories of both sides without bias, there will not be anti-CNN website. And, for this point, I, personally, prefer UK's media. eg: before iraq war, pro and con views were equally strong on media, then, suddenly one day, media realized their soldiers had already been on the front line ready to fight for their country, then, media stopped all those arguments. This 'debating, rationale, reality' approach is worth learning. RichardLee is correct, these pics of ChinaDaily report was created by an overseas Chinese, the original file is a video chip posted on youtube. Its web link has already been provided by the article named 'BBC,Youtube unblocked...' on this website. Meanwhile, I do not believe Chinadaily or any government related staff made that video, because the usual approach for Beijing to handle the west media is all about blocking, if someone – a young person -- wants to change to a new, different method, there will be countless steps of approval procedure, therefore, that video could not be released so quick and I do not think anyone there will take so much pain and risk their career. Now, regarding the wondering about the reaction of the Chinese people, especially those overseas Chinese people to the current events. Once again, this unexpected outcome has been labeled as the result of successful brainwashing or overflowing nationalism. But, how can it happen? Many Chinese young students criticized everything of China when they left for aboard, they had the willingness to accept all western views... However, Many westerners have harbored prejudices against the Chinese people. When they talk about Chinese or China, it is all about brainwashed, close-minded, under-developed, etc. the West TV news and programmes about China are full of suppress, pollution, even, when it comes a moment that China’s achievement has to be mentioned, a negative comment/programme will be followed immediately. On the contrary, on China media, eg: CCTV/Shanghai TV are reporting West news largely based on translation without Chinese subjective comments, and they also have run many programmes to introduce western achievements. It is this media that has been consistently condemned as biased by Chinese and Westerners. Yes, China media is biased. But WHO is NOT biased??? In line with a west trendy of bashing on China, then, Why Chinese has to listen to those biased west media to preach about justice and democracy? ‘in the absence of respect and equality, the Chinese people have rallied at an unprecedented speed underneath the national flag. They have voluntarily given up many rights and freedoms, in order to avoid more injuries and insults from the outside.’—quoted from a report. I believe it is patriotism not nationalism, because these Chinese young people will not go extreme and violence. They know how to love the country rationally, and they have the unwavering determination to keep the country unified. This time, west ‘free media’ has done a big favour to Beijing. I guess such outcome is also out of Beijing’s expectation, which results the unblocking of BBC and youtube --- only my wild guess. I know, once I post this comment, some people here will throw stones to me. Well, I have no interest in politics, and I am not good at debating. I am writing comments here, only because I feel, as a Chinese, I am sort of obliged to say something, during this event, to a website which I really like.

EL JEFE

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:53:58 +0800

Nancy Pelosi's posturing seems to be more about herself than anything or anyone else. Regarding the last paragraph of the post -- I can understand why mistakes in reporting, such as thinking a Nepalese person is Tibetan or Chinese or basically saying that all Asians look alike, would invalidate the coverage. Personally, I don't think I have enough information about what is going on to make a clear judgement one way or the other.

Alec

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:33:12 +0800

If the comments on China Daily and Economist articles are truly indicative of what the average educated Chinese person believes, I'm terrified for the future.

Les Izmore

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:37:13 +0800

Thanks Dan. Its nice to see some constructive comments from someone who is actually educated about and morally invested in the 'Tibetan question.'

nanheyangrouchuan

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:36:23 +0800

The Chinese tourists are typically on those "shopping tours" and aren't even afforded the time to really get to explore the western countries they visit and the Chinese students spend all of their time playing internet games. Bad, bad China.

Dan Washburn

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:18:51 +0800

This NYT op-ed is worth reading.

Bumix

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:07:50 +0800

It's really scary to see how young Chinese people studying overseas don't start to appreciate a more free and critical press but are so brainwashed that they see everything as western propaganda aimed to defame China! Reading the comments at the China Daily article gives me goose bumps.

callipers

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:08:10 +0800

Obviously, those "Chinese living OUTSIDE of China" are a bit fobby (if they are in fact overseas) as revealed by their use of such choice phrasing as "canader tourist" to describe a Canadian tourist.

callipers

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:47:24 +0800

It seems the majority of the "bias" is demonstrated by showing pictures from Nepal, which is presumably because no pictures from Tibet are available due to the news black-out that has been imposed in China. It would probably be to China's advantage if it understood that it might add credibility to its actions and claims by allowing foreign journalists to report on the incident. But then again, that would create the danger that the world might glean the truth. In fact, the official media has already plainly stated that they would "crush" the opposition, which I think is a very clear statement of tactics.

richardlee

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:08:49 +0800

the pics of the Chinadaily report is not created by Chinadaily. It is compiled and written by an overseas Chinese. Now some Chinese living OUTSIDE of China found a website: anti-CNN.com. its purpose is to debunk those biased reports by western meida. it is not just aimed at CNN. China daily just uses those people's work. don't overstate their ability. the thing is this is the voice from Chinese folks, not from CCP. It would be very ignorant by labelling those Chinese defending China(not necessarily CCP) as "brainwashed".