April 16, 2008
(L) China: Nationalist netizens on MSN Messenger "heart" China
Like Wang Jianshuo and Eric Hu, we were pretty surprised to see that this is what our MSN messenger looks like at the moment. Says Eric:Over half of my Chinese-Chinese friends on MSN have put the badge on their contact names, in defiance of all the anti-China bullying that they’re undoubtedly reading about in the Chinese newspapers, watching on the Chinese news, and scouring over on the hundreds of blogs and BBS’s peppering China’s cyberscape and devoted to propping up this country’s national pride. Does anyone actually think a battle this mindless and solipsistic is going to have a clear winner, or even less likely, a clear compromise?
Jianshuo notes a similar flower bloom on MSN in 2004 and observes:
I just want to share with my friends on this blog about the reality, or to be more exact, about the reaction/perception of what happened in London and Paris. People may evaluate about the result of the protest. It is the time to find a way to communicate a message that is acceptable by the Chinese people. I heard a lot of criticism about the perception, but I only see "different", not right or wrong.
An American friend of ours told us on IM:
It will be interesting to see if there is a backlash against the Chinese who dont have "heart China" on their MSN. Like Americans who dont wear a flag on their lapels are somehow un-American.False and misguided patriotism can get really ugly. I know from experience. Ironically, it's one of the reasons I moved to China.
Another American friend says:
I find this phenomenon akin to the "Support the Troops" bumper stickers on SUVs in the U.S. It's just so tacky.
A Chinese friend of ours told us why she and others had added the (L)China to their MSN names:
To support China. The sentiment is very high now. Especially after the Paris incident happened. A lot of Chinese people I know are quite against France now. I don’t want to join the parade of anti-France, but I support China.
It's interesting to see how nationalism rears its head in places as different as China and the US, and how it is generally quite uncool in Europe at the moment. On our part, we decided to kind of go with the flow, but in our own way, so this is what our MSN messenger looks like right now. Readers of this blog are welcome to join us on our one-man revolution.
UPDATE: Dragon TV claims 5 million MSN Messenger users "heart" China
Related link on Shanghaiist
Nationalist netizens call for boycott of Carrefour and other French brands
See what China-based Twitter-ers are saying after the jump:
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*grin* Chinese-American and proud.
"You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Bunch of easily led automatons. Try thinking for yourselves before you put (L) China on your MSN!"
- Veronica, "Clerks"
... there's my (l) everyone! in the screen cap :)
Nationalism is "uncool" in Europe because of those minor historical events such as imperialism, colonialism, racial theory, eugenics, pogroms ..World War 2 ...the holocaust ... etc
and suprisingly enough ..even with all that lurking around you still get outraged reactions for writing or saying stuff that rejects countries and race.
one guy on my msn says it just started this morning and is related to fake news on the BBC and CNN.
Interesting way to take the temperature of a nation what what?
^.........^
This is so stupid.
Politics and patriotism in particular is the way that idiots compensate for their personal shortcomings, frustrations, weaknesses, etc in the same way that pathetic sports fanatics try to vicariously experience success and glory through "their team" and momentarily forget about their petty, meaningless lives. Letting people believe that they are part of "something great" is extremely effective because it appeals to the individual's struggle and rallies that sentiment behind the state.
I am always embarrassed by displays of patriotism, and generally feel they are reserved for those deprived of education or endowed with stupidity.
Of course - if any of this passes as sane then first up, the American government should apologize to France on behalf of all Americans for Bill O'Reilly.
Let's cast our minds back to say, 1976. Think about the prospects of the Chinese people then, just 32 years ago. Now look around Shanghai. I'd fuckin' well heart China too. Calling this stuff blind nationalism is way over the top. These folks are proud of their country and they should be. We can argue about how that has been accomplished all we want. The kind of people who use MSN definitely have better lives and they are optimistic about their personal future. Is the government exploiting this good feeling for crass political purposes? Perhaps, but people can still have valid feelings for their country without squeezing them through a geo-political frame. I love my country and right now we're blowing people up every day. Am I a hysterical nationalist? Not by a long shot.
Come off it Les, the (L) China movement has about as much validity and thought behind it as a "Support the Troops" yellow ribbon bumper sticker does in the States.
hey;- )
why are u worried. wrong news reporting happens all the time, for instance news about the situation in israel. dont be upset about the stupid western foreigners ;- )
who wants to come to the olympic may come, the other ones are just afraid to loose anyway. the people are jealous at china because chinese taking away the business and money. the olympic protest is just the way to express that.
dont need to change msn name for stupid foreigerns, right? right!
have a nice day;- )
T - if you want to have a conversation you should address my points rather than just reiterating yours. My socialist family always flew the Stars and Stripes on holidays because my Mom said, "I'm not gonna let those bastard Republicans steal my flag." Maybe I have a different take on this stuff than you do.
“Governments exist to protect the rights of minorities. The loved and the rich need no protection: they have many friends and few enemies”.
IF CHINA IS SO CONFIDENT AND WESTERNERS ARE SO “JEALOUS” THEN HELL JUST LET THE MEDIA ENTER “AT RISK” REGIONS. ITS GOOD CHINESE ARE PROUD OF THEMSELVES AND THE OLYMPICS. BUT CHINESE MAINLANDERS BE HAPPY THE CHINESE GOV’T HAS ALLOWED YOU TO “EXPRESS” THEIR ONE VIEW POINT, IF YOU DARE TO EXPRESS OTHER, BE READY TO GET YOUR ASS WHOOPED! BECAUSE GOD, FORBID YOU HAVE YOU OWN VIEW…OOPS! I FORGOT YOU CAN’T ! ITS TOO SENSITIVE TO TALK ABOUT.
Les - do you honestly think that the millions of Chinese who put a little (L) China modifier on their MSN screen name went through a period of self-reflection and thought? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that can be had for cheap . . .
If you can't see that it is a combination of internet meme (which is probably the more likely source of promulgation) and victimization, then I'd have to really question your time in China and how well you actually know anyone here.
Patriotism and loving one's country is not best expressed through a flag pin or a little heart with the name of your country on your MSN screen name. It's as silly as sewing a Maple Leaf to your backpack or putting a bumper sticker on your car. Or even siller, I'd say.
This is my advice to anyone - Chinese, American, Swedish, Land of Mutton - if you really love your country, then why not try to make it a better place? Stop littering. Be nice to your neighbors. Strive to set a better example for people. Be a better example of your countrymen abroad, and at home. Be an ambassador. Vote.
What I don't understand is the common refrain I'm hearing from the Chinese that Westerners are 'jealous' of China. Huh? So China's growth rate is higher - that's because China is poor. The per capita income is still 1/15th of Frances'. The Westerners are jealous because China wins more medals? When did that happen? I thought America won the most medals at the last Olympics? Are we jealous of China's clean air, excellent universities, thriving cultural scene, free and universal health care, open and transparent government, excellent international sports teams . . . . what, outside of growth figures that only exist because China started from such a desperately poor position, are Westerners jealous of? Please enlgihten, o you raving maniacs who have invaded Shanghaiist.
thanks for this news. Now i, as well, have put (L) China on my MSN. feel good. Yes, I want others to know I love China, especially at this moment.
Just met a very good friend from NY arrived Sha today. he can read and speak Chinese, but has lived in NY for 30 years already. he does not read newspaper, websites, only watch TV to get news on daily life. Interestingly, or, I should say, no surprising at all, before I show him the SINA website, he did NOT know the roits happened in Lhasa, he thought it was a peaceful protest. also, for Paris, all he knew was Free-Tibet peaceful protest against Olympic Torch. when I showed him the picture of Jinjin under violent attack w/o police protection, he became very quite, then started to talk about economics...
I am so shocked, because he is a really nice person, so interested in Chinese culture and history... i cannot say he is ignorant to China, because it isnot true, his China's history knowledge is even better than me. I cannot say he dislikes Chinese, because I know for sure he loves China. AND i cannot say he has been brainwashed by west media, because this expression is not polite he will definitely feel hurt.
Finally, after his long period of quietness, I told him: 'let us not talk about politics, for the sake of friendship. Because it is like chicken talks to duck -- no one can understand each other. '
(L)China... must be scaring the pants of the China bashers...
I love NY, no problem there, I love the USA, who would complain? I love Britian, I love france, not a murmur of protest.
I love China, and all of sudden the pathetic excuses for human beings have a problem.
Well isn't that just too bad, you can protest and bash China all you like, but the more you bash China, the more the Chinese will stand by Government. Which is exactly how humans behave and do behave in every single other country in the world. But of course the problem with people who demonise China is that they have absorbed so much of their own propaganda, they can't imagine the Chinese to behave just like any other humans.
Frankly, as you westerners know, we mainland chinese do not really enjoy the right of parade regarding any political issue. Sometimes when the "illegal" ones go bad, there would be crackdown. The only legal parade as I rememeber, was when US bombed our embassy in Yugoslavia.
So (L)China is actually among the only few ways that we can use to express ourselves. Yes, you can look down upon the it coz your constitution makes more sense. but,BUT, at this point, it is not a matter of CPC, it is a matter that our nation is been humiliated and insulted/ framed and blackmailed ... as Chinese, if we dont support China by all means legal, who else will? If we ignore this and try not to be a nationalist, who else will care?
If the congress re-write our constitution and make every justified prada legal, many western countries' Embassies and Consulates would get fucked-up as brutle as China gets in Frech, UK and etc. So pls do not take it so easy that Chinese people are as weak as play tricks on MSN... we have been as a tolerant race for many many many years.
Beautifully spoken Callipers! Couldnt agree with you more!
Haha! Alec, I love you! Soooo on the money with that one!
Same: Alec you said it all
(L) CCP (L)中共 (F**K）Tibet 入境随俗！
没有共产党就没有新中国
做一个毛主席的好学生！
Honestly, the sheer willingness of so many Chinese to blindly support their unelected, unaccountable, unsupervised, and by the words of China's Constitution "DICTATORSHIP 独裁" is really beyond me.
Before I came to China, I had a lot more faith in the power of free will in the face of overwhelming ideological indoctrination of utter lies.
Then again, we are talking about an organization that made 70 million Chinese people willing to starve themselves to death, and have lots of babies at the same time.
I am actually encouraged by the blind outrage by the global Chinese community. We can all see the results of the CCP's education and China's domestic conditions. We can also see how mindless and hyper-sensitive the young ones are.
They should remember that their parents and grandparents live with the unhappy memories of mindless "patriotism" that lasted from the late 60s until Mao's death.
@Alec
Yes you do jealous, because you dont wanna see the nation you have invaded by all means from 1900s to be stronger now and soon be better than your own.
You are perfectly right, as China does have many many many many many problems. but i do doubt if you can undertand a very common thing that every nation has its problems. We dont deny anything because it has problems but We see things in its trend. and you know, or it is obvious that China is going to be one of the Powers. When we talking about a nation's power in the international community. We dont count it in a way of per-capital, we see it in a whole. That's the part you are an total ingorant. A polluted China with bad universities can still be the power coz we have larger comsuption, we produce things you have to suck on to keep living, we have 1200billion USD to ordaer USA to suck balls, we have nuclear weapons to fuck whoever wants to split the nation. Yes, you do jealous. Fresh air won't make you feel better when your western gov-s taking oders from the USA like his bitches.
and thx for your pointing-fingers on China's problems. but guess what, since the Chinese can get you motherfucker invaders back home in the 20 centuries, there is nothing we can not acchieve for now and the future. You just wait and see.
For Alec,
We are proud because we are standing in front of the the rest of the world and still holding the tag says we are communist country. No other communist countries can do that. We are still growing, we are still improving. And most important of all, we are exercising our freedom of speech online and through other methods but these actions were labeled by people like you as stupid. I thought people like you are all for freedom.
Alec is obviously all for freedom of speech Sega, he was simply commenting on the absurd amount of Chinese people who are making the laughable comments that western people and nations are jealous of China's growth. The only reason why people are labeling your so called "freedom of speech" online as stupid is because its not freedom of speech at all. You are simply reiterating the hateful anti-west patriotic brainwashed garbage your gov't here has been hammering throughout the media. You dont know what freedom of speech is, and thats ok as you grew up in china, but dont throw around the phrase like you do know what it means.
Winterfalling, read Callipers post. It sums you up nicely.
I actually have nothing against the Chinese putting a (L) China next to their names on MSN. I don't see much difference between that and wearing American flag pins or yellow ribbons. It's people displaying a love for their country.
What I'm worried about is the uniformity among all the Chinese posters. I'm not sure if some Chinese are intimidated into keeping quiet, or if perhaps there is more debate on Chinese boards, but the lack of variety in opinion is disquieting. Yes, some people in America have certain opinions about Iraq, China, Republicans, Democrats . . . but there are many, many other opinions constantly being aired and discussed. I don't see that here. Every poster I see from China complains about how China is being unfairly victimized, the Western media is biased, the Dalai Lama is a villain . . . this is not free speech. There is no serious introspection going on. There is no serious questioning of the sources of their information. I mean, the Chinese government does not allow independent reporters into Tibet, releases statistics that contradict what the local Tibetans say happened, makes vast accusations without proof (oh, sorry, we have our mysterious unnamed monk who confessed to being directed by the Dalai), and yet every Chinese person accepts this version and rails against Western bias. Yes, the Western media (especially certain publications) may be biased. But Xinhua is obviously an organization that is designed to release information that benefits the party. WHY IS THIS NEWS MORE TRUSTWORTHY TO CHINESE PEOPLE???? It seems like a very simple logical connection that Xinhua would not be honest. But people here seem unable to make that connection. So, so strange.
I mean, the debate has been brilliantly shifted by the government. What the Chinese should be asking themselves is why the Tibetans, who they have been told want to be part of China, shows such resentment and widespread anger when the opportunity arose. This is the issue. China has failed these people. Do I think Tibet should be independent? No, because it is not political reality. Should China try and change what has made the Tibetans so angry? Yes, if they want lasting peace. BUT THEY, AND THE CHINESE PEOPLE, DO NOT THINK THIS IS THE DEBATE. They think the debate is about the West's reporting. They are attacking the West and completely avoiding the underlying issues here. Could China give more religious autonomy if it made the Tibetans happier, such as chooisng their own lamas and not forcing the monks to take patriotic education classes? Why not? This entire fiasco is not about the West's reporting - it is about China's failed policies towards its western provinces. Please, someone with an ounce of reason, like bamboos . . . please tell me how the problems shaking the IOC and China are the West's creations, and not China's?
OPEN YOUR EYES
Oh, also, Sega - China might be the most un-communist country in the world. You can't call a chicken and duck and make it magically a duck. America is more communist, ironically, what with strong labor unions, medicare, medicaid, welfare, etc. China is America before the New Deal. Don't delude yourself.
http://digg.com/world_news/L_Tibet_Netizens_Response_to_L_China
There is something funny, chinese people want to boycott french products, ok so they can also boycott Olympic Games, because they were reinvented by a French man Pierre de Coubertin in 1894 and he was the first president of the IOC until 1925.
The five rings were invented in 1913 by Pierre de Coubertin too.
I am not for boycotting, just to say Olympic Games are games and not political. It's not because one guy did one terrible thing in France that all the french people think like him.
Olympic Games represent the peace.
I'm repeatedly struck by how childish and child-like mainstream pop culture in China is. It's more like adolescent back in the US, perpetual adolescence, but here it seems like more is cute-ified in a sort of pre-adolescent-girl way. This is another good example, though my favorite remains the cutesy little cartoon characters of the Shanghai cops.
Dunno what to make of it all, just sayin'.
Alec: your 10:26 AM post is right on. Heck, a Chinese commenter in this thread basically said "Our government disallows other forms of assembly, and might crack down even if we assemble legally, so this is our only way to support them."
WTF???
WatchBagDVD: you mean like how grown men here listen to the Backstreet Boys?
If I speak for China as i did, you call me nationalist. Then who should I speak for? WE GOT FUCKED, pls try to feel the way China is undergoing... WE GOT FUCKED. it may hard for you to understand, since your western nations have been invading and fucking others, like afganistan, Yugoslavia, Iraq and etc for long. Nobody fucks you.
That's why you always are so concerned about human rights, complain about Chinese gov and nationalists. But as a Chinese now, I would say, fuck the human rights, fuck you all, we are not even repected as a nation, who are we to have human rights? Do you want protect your fucking humanrights when you see a handicapped Chinese girl got attacked by western DALAI LAMA suppoters and human right orgnization who wants to "protect Chinese human rights"?
@Alec
I'm not sure if some Chinese are intimidated into keeping quiet, or if perhaps there is more debate on Chinese boards, but the lack of variety in opinion is disquieting.
This is most silly words and very typical words. Just because you can not speak and read Chinese doesn't mean there is no debate and diversified viewpionts in Chinese society.
McLustin: Oh yeah.
Richard, people dont need to be able to speak Chinese to see that there is absolutely no debate regarding these issues. If Alec tried to post that comment on the CD website, it would not of even gotten approved. I know, because I tried to post a similar reply on that bored and sadly enough it never was posted. That speaks for itself. Find me one Chinese poster who has brought up any of the things that Alec and some of the other posters here have. Good luck with that!
Fair enough, Richard. But why, then, have the hundreds of comments I've read on Economist article, China Daily articles, NYT articles and Shanghaiist articles all said the same thing with only the slightest of variation?
Do people who speak English all have the same exact same opinion, but those restricted only to Chinese have widely different views? Really? Can you understand why I find this unlikely?
"America is more communist, ironically, what with strong labor unions, medicare, medicaid, welfare, etc." I think this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on Shanghaiist... How long have you been in China to think this way? Labor unions have gotten their asses kicked over the last 40 years. Unions represent less than 20% of US workers. Check out the labor practices of Wal-Mart et al. Think about the 90 million uninsured people in the US. Check your head dude, you're dreaming. This kind of unrealistic thinking is what you get from believing the 'free press' in the good ol' USA.
(L) winterfalling quasi child porn photo
kinda looks like a dude on a squatter, working out last night's nanheyangrouchuan or something... PUSH!!!!
Alec said it all you guys. (L)China is not offensive to Westerners. It is just amusing. It brings up the old "If your friends all jumped off a building, would you too?" question.
It also DOES divert from the real issue. So you hate the "biased" Western media. So? This does nothing for Tibet, where, Western media or no, people were obviously unhappy with Chinese rule enough to riot, and where monks were obviously upset enough to protest PEACEFULLY days before, until they were manhandled by the government.
Oh, but go ahead, add a little (L)China to your screenname and be a conformist. THAT will solve all the problems. Well, I have a better idea. If Westerners don't understand China or Tibet or any of that, then why don't you lift a finger to solve the Tibet issue in a constructive way yourselves, or at least express your willingness to do something about it.
I will tell you the reason why Pro-Tibet protesters have been more successful at getting their message across. Because to the rest of the world, they actually look like they care about Tibet. They address the problem, whether you agree with them or not.
You look like you only care about Han Chinese. Oh, Westerners are insulting Chinese dignity, you say? Message: ME ME ME ME ME ME.... It's no wonder the rest of the world responds with: Look at the nationalist Chinese all marching to the tune of the same drummer. Care about someone but yourself for once.
So go ahead. Add a (L)China, and do nothing about the problem. I will just sit back and laugh.
Oh, and Winter dear, adults can have discussions without resorting to "Fuck" every few words. If you really want to convince someone of an argument (not that it would help in this case), profanity is not the way to go. We won't agree regardless, but the profanity just makes me want to toss anything you say in the rubbish bin.