Shanghaiist: Volunteer in China: "I was not in fact attacked by a mob"

Beijingjeff

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:55:10 +0800

Interesting that James Galvin's "own story" seems to be written in Chinglish. I was attacked by a Chinese mob in Beijing in 2003, probably 100 or so Chinese people spitting, kicking, pushing and cursing me and 2 friends, one of whom was Chinese, although only us 2 foreigners were hurt. My shirt was torn, I had cuts and bruises, and the police had to come to get us out of the mob of Chinese animals that had no idea what had happened, only that it was a "dispute" between a foreigner and a Chinese person. And all that "dispute" was was 2 attention-seeking Chinese whores that accused me of brushing up against their car in an insanely packed Houahai lake area. That incident changed my mind forever about Chinese people, and I have no doubt that this poor guy was treated in a similar manner. I am sure that if this had happened in another country, to a Chinese person, the nationalistic Chinese bastards would be all over it. My best friends are Chinese (although I'm sure no one will believe it from this post) and I have met some great people in China, but animals like this that attack people for no other reason than the color of their skin should be in prison.

nanheyangrouchuan

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:34:32 +0800

@ Less, Don't be mad because your life in China revolves around doing nothing in a place where your white skin makes you something special. And if I change some minds, all the better.

clementdtsang

Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:41:48 +0800

To Callipers : You should leave China. You read like an old china hand turned sour. I suggest you tone down your constant belligerent attacks. If I were a paranoid type, I would think that this forum is one that is monitored frequently by state-owned entities. Unless of course that is your objective, to be an agent provocateur..

skyline5k

Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:56:28 +0800

"@skyline5k There was no speculation on our part. I still feel that based on the information we had at the time -- the initial account, the official email that confirmed the incident, and the email from the Embassy acknowledging the incident -- we were right to go ahead with the post. Lots of foreigners living in China read our site. And this is news that can directly affect their lives. The moment there was an update, we posted it immediately." Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about speculation on Shanghaiist, I was actually referring to the comments on the other story where people were saying that this "Might" have happened, and the guy "Might" have said this to instigate... the list goes on. That sort of speculation by the the general public is what I was referring to. Your story was fine, Dan. No complaints there.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:51:05 +0800

"And his comment about a white guy being where he didn't belong is disgusting. Foreigners don't have a right to shop where they please in China?" So if you saw a mob, knew they were angry at a Western brand (and western is associated with white), you'd just waltz your white ass into the thick of it because you perceive that "you have the right"? China is not a western country (and most countries are not) and 1. you may not have the right 2. use a few brain cells knowing the previously mentioned information, is the risk of getting jumped by hundreds or thousands worth proving to yourself that "country x is as free as the west, no matter what the media says"? If you were in a western country, would you wade into a situation like that? Probably not. The simple naiveness of China expats can be unbelievable.

jaycasey

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:38:27 +0800

I'm glad Galvin set the record straight but being shouted at by a crowd for no good reason is outrageous. I'd be plenty pissed off. And his comment about a white guy being where he didn't belong is disgusting. Foreigners don't have a right to shop where they please in China? Come on - give me a break. If a crowd of white people picked on a hapless Chinese shopper in the US or UK like this you can bet the Chinese media would play it for all it was worth.

Les Izmore

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:56:24 +0800

nanananaheyan- So you help clean the environment by trying to burn China down. Hmmm... a little too deep for me. I guess it might make sense to some but I'm sure that most of us think you're an idiot. Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back while you're trying to personally kick China's ass by insulting the whole country on blogs. Do you really believe your self serving bloviating will change anyone's mind?

chinese_nationalista

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:01:29 +0800

I agree with Sharpie and Reaver's comments about the Shanghaiist. My expectations for the Shanghaiist, as a blog, are that they provide as much first-hand information as possible in as immediate a manner as possible. I don't presume that anything posted on this blog is the authoratative, final say on the matter and I don't expect the Shanghaiist to do any extended research or critical analysis into this event; that is what my own brain is for.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:47:22 +0800

Why are there no protests outside of Bausch & Lomb, Areva, Total, Renault and Suez? Because those companies are associated with high technology, advanced manufacturing and modern management methods and so are necessary for China's development. So they stay protected, Carrefour is just a department store.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:23:05 +0800

Except my job is try to come up with ways to clean up this nightmarish environment, what's your job Less? And here is more of "bad China"! It's time for "Shark awareness week"! http://tinyurl.com/4zt6j4

LeeTest1

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:04:09 +0800

nanheyangrouchuan it is a pity that nothing bad had happened isn't it ?! Otherwise, you can have a go with critising the chinese again ? What a pity !! it did not happen

Les Izmore

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:58:21 +0800

nanheyan- you're such a hypocrite. You say you work in China. If you're not making a living "on the backs of countless slave laborers" are you working for free?

tommylee2

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:55:28 +0800

oh..burn and wash ..gona sleeping !! lazy git !! wake up and do the filtering man !

tommylee2

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:53:27 +0800

hoho..it is gonna be an effort taking job to filtering every post here !!

photoluc

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:33:26 +0800

Told you so. I commented yesterday that the next day we'll learn that there was nothing in the end. There was nothing in the end. Having said so, if it was stupid for Shanghaiist to believe the whole story in the first place (smelled fishy to me from the beginning), BIG KUDDOS for being brave about recognizing the mistake, updating the posts, explaining why they made the mistake. There is a lesson in journalism here. For me it's ok to be wrong if you have the balls to recognize it later. You had the balls. You did it, Shanghaiist. Well done. Lucas

dfoo

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:57:27 +0800

Let me re-write that for you: What lies? The lie of the USA? Who has no moral center, people who promote a mass murdering government and live a life of comfort and imagined elitism on the backs of countless slave laborers (like you) or the people who openly discuss people like you. There that's better.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:31:21 +0800

@ Less "He lies to further his cause because he has no moral center and fully believes in his own godhood and infallibility." What lies? The lie of China? Who has no moral center, people who promote a mass murdering government and live a life of comfort and imagined elitism on the backs of countless slave laborers (like you) or the people who openly discuss people like you.

winterfalling

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:08:23 +0800

@nanheyangrouchuan I have not idea about what the fuck there is in your 羊肉串 name but I do believe you smells no better than the over-grilled 羊肉串. From our history of fighting, i feel you are very good at Shanghai and China but too bad, you can not enjoy the people, the food, and culture and whatever else in China while you still have to live in the polluted air and suffer and eat 羊肉串 and curse China and in the hope of toppling down the nation with your well-studied plan, which usually is ignored by sane persons. So I am wondering what kind of creature you are, twisted and deformed, distorted and misused... or maybe next time when I passby the Uigur stall-keeper grilling 羊肉串，i will see if any person with a preak look around...i know you like that but hey, dont eat too much of that, it makes you smell like a ewe……^_^ 哈哈哈哈！

dfoo

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:58:32 +0800

The one factual error that Joffe-Walt made (that of LBL's eye popping out of its socket)... random nonsense let's not forget James Galvin COULD have been beaten up badly. Such a small factual error. And so journalism and ethics goes. And so front page news goes. What COULD happen. What MIGHT occur. News at 10 (front page news) Asteroid to strike earth 11 GMT top astronomer says. All life on earth to end in a fiery ball. I fell in to a burning ring of fire I went down,down,down and the flames went higher. And it burns,burns,burns the ring of fire the ring of fire.

Les Izmore

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:40:38 +0800

WF- you are exactly correct. nanheyan believes by turning China into an anarchic bloody mess he can get what he wants. He isn't a human being. He's a computer generated neocon shit stirrer who'd happily be up to his elbows in blood if it would serve his political purposes. He lies to further his cause because he has no moral center and fully believes in his own godhood and infallibility. Oh, and thank you for making your point strongly and clearly with out any curse words. Personaly I could care less about 'bad' language but I think it brings down the valid arguments you often bring up.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:31:05 +0800

"coz you are suck a freak you just wanna this guy get killed by the mob so that you can open your shitty mouth and say:"see? this is China, the mob kills people. China should go to hell."" You are projecting again, and your screen name is stupid. Winter doesn't fall, it arrives. Anyway, any human with average common sense would have seen the mob, and not even knowing why they were there, but getting the idea that it was a protest, would not try to interact with it. Especially in a foreign country, especially when there are tensions between said country and the part of the world where this person was from ("the West"). So this guy probably deserved to get smacked around just for pushing his luck AND being a panda licker. If he was going to "support China" he should've taken his shopping list to Lianhua, if he needed some foreign food, City Shopper. Also, I'm wondering how he got into Carrefour in the first place, with the mob surrounding the store. Did he come in a different entrance and thought he'd be funny and come out through the main entrance? Was he in Carrefour when it opened and hung out for hours until the mob formed?

winterfalling

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:07:06 +0800

@nanheyangrouchuan What you said is totally based on your imagination and your hatred to China and its people. When the guy is confirmed to be safe and the rumor is clearified, everybody feels eased but you feel SO BAD, coz you are suck a freak you just wanna this guy get killed by the mob so that you can open your shitty mouth and say:"see? this is China, the mob kills people. China should go to hell."

nanheyangrouchuan

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:07:41 +0800

And where is James now? Still in China or still in the US? And why were the police concerned enough about this guy to commandeer a taxi and drive him out of there? Because of one little bitch ass protester? James' friend said they saw blood. There is a big distinction between blood and no blood. I'm suspecting James is a naive panda-hugger on his way to devolving into a panda licker who just can't believe that any bad things would ever happen in China. And this guy didn't even have the IQ to see a mob around Carrefour and be aware of what is going with regards to France, China and the Olympics or avoid a mob in the first place. Like alot of dumb ass panda lickers, he just walked past the crowd, thinking to himself, "How wonderful! The Chinese love their country soooo much and don't pay any attention to politics! I'm going to live here and teach english forever!" I think he is lying, and the State Dept will certainly back him up to "maintain an even keel" so that there is no interruption of China's siphoning of global technology and investment money for the sake of Wall St and MNCs.

bbb

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:05:44 +0800

I'm still wondering about the question ..... -------------------------------- 同事说的事情经过：八中学生晚上跑去游行（白天工大学生堵门刚走），有一洋佬（不一定是法国籍）过来骂了句FUCK YOU，随后双方发生了肢体冲突，其后围观市民加入群殴，洋佬逃至车站广场某的士上锁了门，追至的人群掀翻的的士直至110赶到。 How come nobody bothers to translate this post?

bbb

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:04:14 +0800

vladivostok

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:55:40 +0800

And with that said, I can't imagine what a madhouse this place is going to be like come Olympics. *Shudder*

vladivostok

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:51:46 +0800

Dear dfoo, Benjamin Joffe-Walt is a personal friend of mine. And if you had been through what he had been through, I don't think you would have said what you just said. The one factual error that Joffe-Walt made (that of LBL's eye popping out of its socket) was a severe and very unfortunate one no doubt (made while writing under great stress) but people should not throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that the beating of LBL that he witnessed was a lie or is to be tolerated. Looking at the facts of this case (which I think Shanghaiist has taken the pains to lay out pretty well), let's not forget James Galvin COULD have been beaten up badly. Thankfully the mob's emotions did not reach tipping point, but just think for a moment what would have happened if it DID. And it could easily have. You don't need to look further than what happened last month in that westernmost province to prove it.

callipers

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:48:31 +0800

@reaver81 "You can't tell China to behave while saying it is okay bully the handicap because they are involved in something you don't like." OF course you can! Don't delude yourself. Jin Jing is a representative of China and the Olympics, which in the most simple-minded way is about sport, and you can believe that if you like. However, in reality, the very concept of promoting goodwill between nations through sport is itself a political gesture. But none of this means anything in reality. The truth is that China has appropriated the games for the purpose of domestic and international propaganda to promote itself internationally, provide an inspiring distraction at home, to enhance nationalism for Chinese in China and overseas, to universally tout it's culture and political system, etc. It is about enhancing the world's perception of China and thus elevate China's standing in the world. Certainly, I can't say that's all bad. It's definitely good that China gets more exposure to the outside world, and it's good that the outside world begins to glean the real China with all of it's complexities and richness. Meanwhile, other groups have also tried to use the Olympics to pressure China on their issues. Likewise, I cannot say this is altogether a bad thing. Acknowledging certain realities -- such as the people who have been trampled-upon through China's breakneck growth -- will ultimately be good for China and help it become a more mature society. Finally, I do like China and the Olympics, but I don't support pushing the handicapped, girls, Chinese, or anyone for that matter.

HowieW928

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:24:52 +0800

A Half assed retraction from a half assed news source, I think it's good enough.

dfoo

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:09:07 +0800

Where is Benjamin Joffe-Walt when you need him?! He could do a *fine* write up on this piece! Substitute Lu Banglie for James Galvin and Bobs your uncle!

reaver81

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:14:35 +0800

Jin Jing is a representative of global games promoting friendly competition between nations, being hostedn oppressive foreign government. She was charged by a person that comes from a place where there is a great deal of social equity and where people can express their dissent and grievances. This person from the place of social equality who thought stealing something from a one legged woman in a wheelchair being pushed by a blind man would win support for his cause. Who cares where James comes from. Where Jin comes from doesn't matter. What happened to both of them is wrong and should not be apologized for and justified. You can't tell China to behave while saying it is okay bully the handicap because they are involved in something you don't like.

Les Izmore

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:55:06 +0800

Dan - I certainly didn't mean to imply that Shanghaiist bent the facts. Unfortunately the facts were pre-bent by the 'friend' of the 'attacked' student. The overheated account of the incident just passed from a small group to a larger group through you. I know that you take your responsibility as a public forum seriously. It is not a simple task to filter the information that you get and maintain timeliness. I also wouldn't lump you in with the press. A blog is a much more informal information resource. No paid employees, i.e. reporters, fact checkers, newsroom staff, etc. People who read blogs should always be aware of that fact and take things on a blog with a grain of salt. I think you put out a very good product and enjoy reading Shanghaiist everyday to find out what's happening in Shanghai but I get my 'hard' world news from other sources. I'm not at all saying you shouldn't cover these stories but after this incident I'm sure you're all thinking about how to do it better yourselves. Shanghaiist is a very lively place where lots of different types of folks come together to chat, discuss and bicker. I'm always learning from the postings and discussions and I appreciate that very much. You offer a rough and tumble, unmoderated platform for free speech and I believe that is an important thing to do in contemporary China.

callipers

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:39:03 +0800

Oh, you forgot these differences -- - James Galvin was not representative of an oppressive foreign government's massive propaganda effort masquerading as sport. - James Galvin comes from a place where there is a great deal of social equity and where people can express their dissent and grievances, thus obviating the need to do so abroad.

dfoo

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:30:19 +0800

Differences between James Galvin and Jin Jing: - No-one pushed James out of his wheelchair. - The locals actually helped James. - The police actually protected James from the mob. - The protesters didn't hurt James, although apparently 2 nasty students yelled at him. and last but not least: - After leaving Carrefore James could still walk.

reaver81

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:20:03 +0800

Sharpie, makes a good point. In a newspaper retractions rarely ever make the front page. But here I have read all the posts that have been posted about this event. The Shanghaiist has done a good job of presenting information as they got it.

Sharpie

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:12:48 +0800

it's obvious sarte88 has a problem with reading comprehension. still seems like a good post to me (there were plenty of "facts") and i appreciate all the updates. blogs post news in real-time as it happens. everything is fluid. facts change and things become clearer. it's not a newspaper and i think readers expect different things from blogs. i don't think a biased or sensationalist blog would have posted the above update either. i think it was handled about as good as you can expect from a blog.

reaver81

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:41:07 +0800

Frances protesting made China look ridiculous? Okay, everyone involves looks ridiculous.

sirlogic

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:25:23 +0800

I second reaver81's comments.

callipers

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:59:11 +0800

@reaver81, well, then we just have no clue what most Chinese think, do we? Of course, I didn't suggest that most Chinese think China is always the victim, but I parroted the "victim" refrain of state propaganda, which I would bet an eye that a sizable percentage of the Chinese people do believe it or will at least repeat it when prompted. Sorry if my informal, wasting-time-commenting-on-a-blog tone was not explicit enough. Surely, I don't have evidence of what most Chinese think and certainly no idea how it might break down across different demographics, but I do know what I hear. And when I hear Chinese end their perpetual defensive posturing and start talking about their own racism, the extent to which they oppress, humiliate, and exploit each other, the turbulence and trauma of their own recent history, a desire to take an honest look at their own society in the manner that the West constantly undergoes self-examination, ending the "victim mentality" -- when that becomes the consensus, I will be less inclined to make such assumptions. Yes, I would love to hear more moderate, informed Chinese opinions, and yes, I agree that this whole ordeal with the torch and with France in particular has made China look a bit ridiculous.

sarte88

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:39:10 +0800

"We actually presented all of the facts we had verbatim." It seems you got an email from a guy at 3am, a few hours after his friend was attacked and you didnt think that his understanding of the situation might be innacurate? and then he tells you it is? It seems the "facts" were - someone had been attacked at a protest (people should be careful) - and your posting of the emails was "sensationalist" shameful exploitation. did you ask any questions or do any research aside from one email confirming something happened?

reaver81

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:36:27 +0800

While the situation does look troubling, events like those with Grace Wang and the torch bearer, it looks worse for Chinese who expressing moderate opinions.

JackUH

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:23:37 +0800

Honestly, this sort of thing is something all organizations grapple with. Remember the VTech shooting incident, where some thought the school didn't act quickly enough to disseminate information and take action after the initial shooting? I mean, if one of the volunteers actually suffered serious injuries, then we'd be all sitting right here saying that the Field Director was seriously negligent in his duties to product his or her volunteers.

reaver81

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:11:22 +0800

Actually, callipers, we don't know that and most Chinese do not think that. You throwing a inflammatory comments at the Chinese does nothing positive.

James Creegan

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:07:10 +0800

I was pretty worried about the direction that things were taking, but this makes the situation sound much better than I thought.

callipers

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:48:33 +0800

Not attacked by a mob, but attacked nonetheless. Certainly, the mob's behavior was extremely hostile. Could you imagine a mob of angry whites following and Asian-looking person and chanting slogans? It would be extraordinarily intimidating and perceived as racial hatred. But of course, here in China, we know it is always the Chinese who can do no wrong and who are inevitably oppressed and humiliated (note cynicism).

Dan Washburn

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:47:04 +0800

@skyline5k There was no speculation on our part. I still feel that based on the information we had at the time -- the initial account, the official email that confirmed the incident, and the email from the Embassy acknowledging the incident -- we were right to go ahead with the post. Lots of foreigners living in China read our site. And this is news that can directly affect their lives. The moment there was an update, we posted it immediately. @Les Izmore We did not stretch or bend any facts. We actually presented all of the facts we had verbatim. And we updated with more information as we got it. I don't think how we handled this displays any kind of prejudice.

tommylee2

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:30:46 +0800

THIS SITE SHOULD BE BURN AND WASH !!!

tommylee2

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:30:26 +0800

this site , the shanghaiist, the editoral's point of view is bais anyway !! many many instances it kept putting up unclarified but extrame bais topics causing net ppls fighting each others !!

Les Izmore

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:50:37 +0800

Ooooopps! I hope this is a lesson to all of us, on both sides of the discussion of China's political problems. about facts and "facts." I'm afraid this gives more ammunition to the 'western media is prejudiced against China side.' Both camps believe fervently that they are correct and righteous in their position. Both sides strech and bend the facts to suit their viewpoint, some inadverdently and some purposefully. I'm sure in the case of Shanghaiist this was inadverdent. It is pretty obvious that the next few months are going to be, shall we say, unsettled? We all need to take things slowly just about now and remember we're only talking about a sporting event here, not the sensational clash of cultures the press on either side seems to want it to be.

skyline5k

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:17:31 +0800

At least we got his story finally. As I mentioned in the other thread, speculation isn't good for anyone in cases like this.

McLustin

Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:07:38 +0800

"one white guy where he didn't belong." What, there's apartheid in China now?