Shanghaiist: Evangelist Franklin Graham outgives entire nations to the relief effort

Fuzi

Sat, 17 May 2008 00:38:46 +0800

Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing. Never, ever trust a religionist, they always have ulterior motives even when they appear to be magnanimous.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 16 May 2008 23:50:16 +0800

"Upsetting heaven and earth is quite a different matter from the Mandate of Heaven. Heaven and earth can be upset by individuals, not just the emperor." Then why not strike down Tibet? Beijing has received its warning. Zhongnanhai will soon burn with all of its inhabitants consumed in the purifying fire.

A B

Fri, 16 May 2008 13:38:21 +0800

"use this humanitarian catastrophe to build on their own religious or political capital" Like by pointing out inconvenient truth that the Dai Lai Lama and all these wealthy expatriate Tibetan exiles and their separatist supporters, through their groups, offered not a single Euro or Dollar of support for the victims of this disaster. Many of whom happen to be Tibetan. It would have added a lot more credibility to their organization if they even offered a token contribution to support disaster victims. In the mean time, China Daily's reporter Chen Jia tells a story of being rescued from a crushed van by an unnamed Tibetan(s). http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-05/16/content_6688672.htm Isn't it nice that ethnic Tibetan(s) didn't distinguish between themselves and others when it comes time to save the lives of a van load of Chinese journalists? No doubt these inconvenient truths disgusts people like daying. They speak to a humanity and common cause between Chinese and Tibetans that happens to not fit with the image of Chinese oppressing Tibet. Upsetting heaven and earth is quite a different matter from the Mandate of Heaven. Heaven and earth can be upset by individuals, not just the emperor.

daying

Fri, 16 May 2008 12:20:42 +0800

People like this rampant evangelist and the Shanghaiist reader A B, who use this humanitarian catastrophe to build on their own religious or political capital disgust me.

Feds

Fri, 16 May 2008 11:11:09 +0800

A B - why? "a perfectly reasonable conclusion is that heaven and earth is angry at the activities of the Dailai Lama and other Tibetan extremists." Talk about seeing what you want to see? Couldn't it be the other way around - that heaven and earth are angry at the leadership of this country for not allowing Tibetans to freely practice their religion? (Tibetan Buddhists are forced to denounce their own god - not exactly freedom of religion - and I can't imagine what the average Joe Wang in Beijing would do if they had to denounce Mao and Zhou.) Or is it punishment for their (and many around this country) angry response to the protests? Or for the insane amount of corruption that go to the root of local leadership and up to the highest levels of government? Though I personally believe it's none of the above, I have to agree with a couple of posters above that the Mandate of Heaven applies to the rulers, and not the ruled or exiles.

concor1

Fri, 16 May 2008 10:34:44 +0800

bet chuan get rich for being so productive. what is your rate per post?

reaver81

Fri, 16 May 2008 10:02:43 +0800

Hey, at least Nanhey knows who the Mandate of Heaven applies to and didn't make it into a long pointless rant. Though the last sentence is a faceplant on the stupid scale. It will be interesting to see what Mr. Graham does in the future. The sinnic see all of this as a way in which to get his Ministry into China and be allowed to establish in one form or another.

gswaff

Fri, 16 May 2008 02:11:23 +0800

Nanhey, give it a rest.

nanheyangrouchuan

Fri, 16 May 2008 00:45:24 +0800

I'll bet everyone was waiting for me to make some sort of "ig'nant" comment about the quake. Well, leave it to some worthless angry youth. The DL is not the leader of China, the CCP is and they have lost the mandate of heaven. They will be punished for their transgressions against not just all of China but their support for NK, Myanmar, Zimbabwe and the Sudan. Unfortunately regular people are under those buildings and not ugly, smelly, knuckle dragging bosses.

gswaff

Thu, 15 May 2008 22:21:46 +0800

I stand corrected. I just read the post below reporting that China has begun to allow foreign aid workers into the damaged region. Good news.

gswaff

Thu, 15 May 2008 22:11:11 +0800

I thought I had read somewhere that the US pledged a measly $500,000 to aid the earthquake victims? That pales in comparison with Chen Long's generous gift of 10 million RMB. At the moment though, I'm more concerned with the ability to get rescue teams and equipment into the devastated areas than financial pissing contests, but I'm glad that people are stepping up. I am also disappointed that China's government has refused search and rescue teams and equipment from other nations in the Asian region. If Iran was able to suck it up and accept teams of rescue workers from the US and elsewhere, why can't China? Money means very little when time is short and lives are at stake.

Kenneth T

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:19:38 +0800

Not fair to compare him to the big corporations IMHO. We're working on another post on what the big corps are doing. Patience :-)

hotshotdebut

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:12:33 +0800

Outgive? That's not even close to Netease's donation of 5 million.

A B

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:47:21 +0800

I am not suggesting a causal link in terms of material or efficient causes. Merely observing that from a traditional Chinese perspective, the earthquake can be interpreted as heaven and earth being angry at the Dai Lai Lama and his activities. That would be formal and final causes, so to speak.

skyline5k

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:59:49 +0800

AB, are you suggesting that Heaven & Earth buried schoolchildren because of the DL & Tibetans? And kudos to all who have given what they can!

vladivostok

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:51:48 +0800

Oh Buddha help us.

A B

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:47:54 +0800

Thank you! Mr. Graham. I wonder if anyone noticed that traditional Chinese beliefs accord natural disasters (like earthquakes) as a signal that heaven and earth is angry with authority and thus, is signaling that it is time for a dynastic change. The 1976 earthquake in Tangshan in Hebei Province (not far from Beijing) was the signal that Mao's dynasty was at an end. If we were to interpret according to Chinese traditional beliefs the 2008 earthquake with its epicenter in Wenchuan County, in the Ngawa Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture, Sichuan, a perfectly reasonable conclusion is that heaven and earth is angry at the activities of the Dailai Lama and other Tibetan extremists who have upset heaven and earth by their activities. It is notable that the epicenter of the quake is well into the areas claimed by the "Tibetan government in exile" and populated by many Tibetans. Other bad omens include the particular calamity directed at school children, which seems to strike at the heart of the special dispensation given to Tibetans who do not have to comply with the one child policy. Traditional minded Chinese could not but help interpret this upset of heaven and earth as being caused by the activities of the Dai Lai Lama. To add insult to injury, the Dai Lai Lama and his organizations offered nothing beyond some words of condolences and prayer, but not a Yuan or fen of aid for the victims, which include many Tibetans. Overseas Tibetan groups, many consisting of well to do Tibetans, also offered not a penny of aid to the victims even as Chinese communities everywhere: Taiwan, Hong Kong, Canada, United States, Europe, etc. generously sent aid to help the victims --- many of whom are ethnic Tibetans or other minorities and not "Han" Chinese. Would someone remind the Dai Lai Lama that prayers are nice, but the victims would prefer some food, shelter, water, blankets, funds to rebuild and practical things like medical supplies? Perhaps the Dai Lai Lama and his "Government in Exile" might want to put the needs of the people he claim to represent ahead of their political agenda against China in a time like this? Where are the vociferous supporters of the Dai Lai Lama who would not hesitate to spend thousands of dollars and euros on organizing and attending demonstrations against the Beijing Olympics worldwide when ethnic Tibetans and Chinese could just use a little financial aid and sympathy? It is during these times that the true colors of the Dai Lai Lama and his "Central Tibetan Administration" and their fellow travelers show their colors. Where is Mia Farrow? Where are all the other big name Hollywood stars and directors that opposed China in the Sudan, the Olympics, etc? Their inaction tells Chinese everywhere what they are really about.