Stir-fried tiger and hidden doggie could land you in jail — oh, and PETA's now in Shanghai

@ Angryman

It's just funny to me to read someone like you accusing others of being extreme while you're foaming at the mouth.

But mainly you are just ignorant of the issues.

Take farmer's 'traditional' lifestyles. In truth, the farmer's traditional lifestyle has been decimated by modern factory farming and the need to focus on a single cash crop - and meat as a cash crop.

In just the past 60 years the USA has gone from 40% of it's people being involved in agriculture to less than 3%. And those who remain are mainly locked into a single product sold to a single buyer who dictates the terms. Farmers markets barely exist in the old sense and when they do, it has to be subsidized by tax.

On top of this, 'modernization' has turned farming, especially the meat industry, into a massive polluter. China have just discovered this about their own farms. As for hunger and poverty, it takes 10 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. It's obscene.

National governments have the resources to change this but they are under very little pressure to do so. It starts with education and awareness. All of this is before we even get to ethics and animal cruelty.

Moving back to plant based healthy diets would be using consumer power to shut down the meat and junk food industries and facilitate a move back to sustainable farming.

You haven't answered the question about working animals, or transitioning the farmers. In fact, other than spouting a few stats about the States, you ignored everything I said. This is about China and developing economies, not the US.

You mention factory farming. Factory farming is a function of population pressure- and what, you think everyone can go back to small local farms and feed the world? In any urbanized society, the biggest issue is the logistics, not the farming itself. How do you propose that all those Utopian little farms get their crops to market in a city of say, 25 million, reliably, every day. Who does the buying, collecting, transporting, wholesaling and end distribution? Small farms are not viable with our current populations, doubly so in China. They simply cannot support the population.

I come from an agricultural area, grew up picking crops for my spending money and university savings (apples mostly, strawberries in season, other fruits). I've had to work unprotected as the sprayer passed, and I've spent cold damp dawns bent over in the strawberry fields for pennies a punnet. Ironically, all of my farm work was on family farms. Stirling's, Kenney's and Nolan's farms, mostly.

It's obvious you want to change things. Fair enough. So, how do you make it work, economically speaking? Where's your magic switch to cause this all to happen, and who pays for it? Who pays for the tractor to replace the oxen, the seed crop, the infrastructure involved in transport and storage of the produce? This is the real world- and some things can't be solved by denigrating the holocaust or getting naked.

I readily admit that the developed world eats too much meat, and will also concede the point about pollution- though the increasing use of pesticides, chemical fertilizers and GMOs is directly related to population pressure, again- but you didn't answer the earlier issues regarding the death rate increase in migrant agricultural workers (working with plant crops, I might add) due to pesticides and chemical exposure, not to mention the risks and dangers of unpleasant death and mutilation caused by the terrible conditions they work in.

Frankly, I don't think you've ever worked on a farm, and are talking out of your pompous, self-righteous, skinny vegan ass. I'd have more respect if you answered the questions and addressed the issues instead of spewing cutnpaste PETA talking points.

Angrymann + nanheyangrouchuan = Win (even just for sheer ballsyness and challenging this PC-dogma)

Andy - Sorry, you can't win on this one (yet). Without a solution to the blatant "ban ban ban" mantra of PETA, there's nothing really to be done that is going to convince others.

You are obviously a man of logical discourse (as it seems Angryman and others here are), and should rise to the challenges that Angryman puts forward if you expect your support of PETA to mean something other than jumping on a neo-China bandwagon. Angryman is correct in that you haven't addressed his questions. I for one (as someone who is actually learning from this very informative dialogue) really would like to see your educated response (as I know you can give :) ).

I really look forward to seeing this discussion continue. I think many people can learn from such informed discourse :)

Dear Editor,

By setting up shop in Shanghai, PETA is hoping to raise awareness about animal rights issues and encourage people to embrace compassionate living (“Stir-fried tiger and hidden doggie could land you in jail — oh, and PETA’s now in Shanghai,” Date). As people become aware that animals are more like us than they are different—that they feel pain and fear, love one another, and value their lives—they are becoming less likely to condone activities that cause suffering.

PETA hopes to work closely with the Chinese Animal Protection Network, so that, together, we can help stop practices that cause suffering. While our methods may be different, we ultimately want the same thing—a world where animals are respected and protected.

PETA’s colorful demonstrations and attention-grabbing advertisements routinely get results, educating people and helping animals around the world. Our campaigns are intended to turn heads, make people smile or make people angry, but at least get their attention. We want people to think about how, to the animals, and often to people, issues like what to eat or wear or how we entertain ourselves are matters of life and death.

By conducting an undercover investigation at an animal market in Guangzhou, where as many as 8,000 dogs and cats were bludgeoned, hanged, boiled, bled to death, or strangled with wire nooses, PETA was able to show fur-wearers the cruelty behind every fur coat and collar. China supplies more than half of the finished fur garments imported for sale in America, where dog and cat fur is labeled as fur from other species and sold to unsuspecting consumers. The footage from Guangzhou, combined with undercover footage from fur farms in the U.S., shocked caring people everywhere and PETA was able to show consumers why they should not buy any fur.

When one sees such horrific and widespread abuse, it may seem that the only course of action is to interfere and rescue the animals. But then what about all the millions of animals we cannot see? Our best hope to help them is to show government officials and caring people what terrible things happen and then work to try to stop it.

PETA president Ingrid Newkirk once shared this analogy with me: One day you're walking along a river and you see a baby floating past. You jump in and save the child. Then another one floats by so you save that, then another and another and another until you realize you can’t save them all. So you go up the river to see who’s throwing them into the water—and you stop that person This is what PETA does. We try to stop the people who are causing the suffering.

Much of what we do—when we’re not shedding our clothes or using humorous gimmicks to provoke discussion of serious animal issues—does not make headlines. We routinely work with policymakers at major corporations to promote alternatives to animal pelts and skins; to replace tests on rabbits’ eyes with sophisticated non-animal tests; and to improve conditions in slaughterhouses, among other things. We also work with authorities to stop the abuse of domestic animals; we serve free, healthy vegan food to the needy; donate fur coats given to us by people who have had a change of heart, to the homeless and to refugees in cold climates; supply computer programs in schools to replace animals in dissections; and much more.

Few people will argue that it’s acceptable to be cruel to animals when we have the choice not to be. PETA urges everyone to find out what happens to animals who are killed for food or fur so that their choices will be fully informed. Please visit www.81fur.com and www.51veg.com to learn more about PETA’s work and how you can help stop animal suffering.

Sincerely,

Lena Li

China campaigner

PETA Asia

I'd also add how thoroughly ethnocentric and post-industrial the whole 'animals are not to be exploited' line is, considering that to follow that line developing world subsistence farmers must give up their work animals- dogs, horses, yaks, oxen, etc as well as non factory farmed, free-range food animals- goats, dairy cows, chickens, pigs etc. with no viable substitutes.

It's easy to make these decisions from your comfortable middle-class bubble, but I ask you- what do these people do instead? You aren't preaching moderation or improvement, there are far more reasonable NGOs pushing that one (such as the RSPCA), you're animal-use abolitionists- and hypocritical ones at that (euthanize and dump those 'companion animals' http://www.petakillsanimals.com/news.cfm )

So, you want to remake the world. How? or are you just another naive starry-eyed idealist trying to make yourself feel better about your relative affluence in society?

All PETA talks about is ban, ban, ban. Replace it with what? Economically viable options only please, not Utopian pipe-dreams. You want to ban it, present an immediately actionable option. Meat bad? Where do the veggies come from? Milk bad, soy good? Who's farming the beans, and how do the buyers pay? Want to switch the crops? How will this be paid for, and who builds the infrastructure, trains the farmers, buys their seed stock and processes the results?

What if the farmers don't want to give up their traditional lifestyle, and what will you do if your social experiment fails?

Self-righteous disapproval and flashy media stunts are cheap and easy. Substantive change is hard, risky, and slow.

Much of what we do—when we’re not shedding our clothes or using humorous gimmicks to provoke discussion of serious animal issues

So, throwing fake blood, using holocaust imagery and giving children books entitled 'Your Daddy Kills Animals" is humourous?

You've got warped priorities and a warped sense of humour.

And what about the migrant VEGETABLE farm workers? I notice you ignored my previous comment about where your priorities lie- answer direct now, which is more important, animals or people?

Q: Why does PETA throw red paint on old women wearing fur instead of people wearing leather?

A: Because little old ladies dont break your arms and legs, stuff you in a trash can, urinate on you, and then light you on fire. Bikers, however, -do-.

nanheyangrouchuan, I signed up just to express my enormous admiration to your unique style of militant vegetarian smackdown.

You are a hero of the carnivorous.

I'd also like to add that it is fruit and vegetable farming that is the most debilitating and exploitative of poor and migrant workers. Anyone who's picked fruit on a piecework deal will agree. Who'd you rather suffer, humans or animals?

Read this before you answer. http://www.fao.org/docrep/x0262e/x0262e19.htm

I am to please and thank you for your support.

dude, we love you. Go forth, and punch hippies till the buddha smiles.

@ Blazing Saddle,

Do you really think that fruits and veggies are processed in the cleanest fashion? How is it that many recent food poisoning problems have involved fruit/vegetable products (peanut butter and spinach in the past couple of years).

Additionally, eating fruit means you are eating the plant/tree's womb. How does that grab you pinko Nancy?

And all plants have electrochemical nervous systems which show stimulus when cut or otherwise damaged. In flesh terms, we call that stimulus "pain".

Commie collectivist turd.

Globe71234,

I feel your pain.

Nanheyangrouchuan, when catch swine or bird flu, both of which seem to have come from filthy concentrated farming facilities, don't expect any sympathy from us plant-eaters.

But we'll still care for you, because we respect animals and humans.

cite the research that backs that claim. Spanish flu must have come from Spanish people, right? Flues happen every year, or twice a year. Must be due to all the piles of meat lying around.

Communist pussy.

The WHO and Pew Commission on Industrial Farm Animal Production have both made it very clear that the factory farming of animals is a prime source of new and lethal viruses, including the "swine flu" and "bird flu."

I don't object if people eat meat from animals that lived and died well. But this hellish, irresponsible way of producing cheap meat is completely unacceptable.

You're very vocal about the evils of mass production and cutting corners to save pennies when it comes to criticizing the Chinese, nanheyangrouchuan. Maybe you should apply the same critical thinking to the food you put into your body.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12625#description

http://www.who.int/csr/bioriskreduction/en/

The question is not, "why be a vegetarian" but "why eat meat?"

I eat meat because I can't eat people anymore

Forgot this link:

http://www.ncifap.org/issues/public_health/

The facts speak for themselves, even when the animals can't.

CORRUPT OFFICER IN NO 43 MIDDLE SCHOOL XIAN CHINA

I was requested to ofter abribe to headmaster in NO 43 middle school XIAN CHINA, the headmaster will be recorded in THE HISTORY OF 30 YEARS DEVELOPING IN PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA ,PLS email to your friend and journalist,reporter that I will fighting with corrupt headmaster in NO 43 middle school XIAN SHAANXI CHINA resolutely.

PLS do not delete my comment and to help me to email or talk to your friend

西安市43中的腐败分子,关键看你送不送,现在大学生就业形式严峻的很,学校现在进人严格的很,没有四五万都办不进来,关键是编制值钱.你不送,就说你心理不健康,神经不正常,你知道不,能当官的在上头都有人呢,你还可以告吗! 不怕打击报复,不怕把人整成神经病,不怕杀人灭口,坚决举报中国陕西省西安市第43中的腐败分子,深挖教育系统的腐败分子,杀贪官,反腐败是党和人民政府不容推卸的责任,也是海内外每个中国人应尽的义务.

警示训诫防线是省委副书记董雷在对党风廉政建设和反腐败总体思路进行理性思考和不懈探索的过程中提出来的，凝聚着他多年的心血和创造性思考

陕西省纪委、监察厅机关业务处室与专家和工程技术人员多次座谈、探讨，进行前期的科学论证和研究开发，精心编制了《陕西省警示训诫防线网络系统方案任务书》，确定了网络建设的需求和目标。期间，监察部项目办负责同志多次到陕西，对网络建设进行调研和指导，省纪委有关领导经常过问，协调指导。省委副书记、原省纪委书记董雷要求研发人员要注重实用、便捷、快速,更要多调研、多探讨，努力把项目搞成精品工程。

2005年9月16日，陕西省警示训诫防线网络系统的汇报片，在全国“运用信息技术，强化行政监管”会议上进行了成功演示，引起很大反响。与会的国务委员、国务院秘书长华建敏，中纪委副书记、监察部部长李至伦，监察部副部长李玉赋给予高度评价。中央媒体也高度关注，中央电视台、人民日报专题进行了采访报道。10月14日，中央纪委常委会观看了陕西省的汇报演示片并进行了讨论。吴官正、何勇等领导同志对该网络系统给予了很高评价。中央纪委常委会的同志认为，陕西省构建警示训诫防线体现了新一届中央领导集体反腐败的新思路，是一个很好创新，特别是运用网络技术实施这个工作，是一个非常好的创举，是一个很有价值的探索，对全国建立健全惩治和预防腐败体系将会是一大贡献

2006年12月，在监察部“中国廉政建设”项目办公室组织召开的陕西省警示训诫防线网络系统鉴定会上，专家鉴定委员会主任、中国工程院院士汪应洛宣布：同意该网络系统通过鉴定，建议在进一步完善后，加大对该系统的推广应用力度。

省委决定、并报中共中央批准，王侠同志任中共陕西省纪律检查委员会委员、常委、书记。董雷同志不再担任中共陕西省纪律检查委员会书记、常委、委员职务。

《决定》强调，党风廉政建设和反腐败斗争关系党的生死存亡。党越是长期执政，反腐倡廉的任务越艰巨，越要坚定不移地反对腐败，越要提高拒腐防变的能力。要求各级党委把加强党风廉政建设和反腐败斗争，作为提高党的执政能力、巩固党的执政地位的一项重大政治任务来抓。要抓紧建立健全与社会主义市场经济体制相适应的教育、制度、监督并重的惩治和预防腐败体系。以解决群众反映的突出问题为重点，坚决纠正损害群众利益的不正之风；以查处发生在领导机关和领导干部中滥用权力、谋取私利的违法违纪案件为重点，严厉惩处腐败分子。加强廉政法制建设，真正形成用制度规范从政行为、按制度办事、靠制度管人的有效机制，保证领导干部廉洁从政。《决定》还强调各级党组织要督促各级党员领导干部加强党性修养，常修为政之德、常思贪欲之害、常怀律己之心，自觉经受住改革开放和发展社会主义市场经济条件下长期执政的考验。这次全会作出的关于给田凤山开除党籍处分的决定，进一步体现了我们党严厉惩处一切腐败分子的坚强决心。

开展先进性教育活动，要以邓小平理论和“三个代表”重要思想为指导，坚持立党为公、执政为民，坚持党要管党、从严治党，紧紧围绕“提高党员素质，加强基层组织，服务人民群众，促进各项工作”的总体目标，紧密联系党校实际和党员队伍建设现状，以学习实践“三个代表”、推进“两个率先“为主线，认真解决党员和党组织在思想、组织、作风以及工作方面存在的突出问题，引导全体党员学习贯彻党章，坚定理想信念，坚持党的宗旨，增强党的观念，发扬优良传统，不断提高党员队伍的素质，增强党组织的凝聚力、创造力、战斗力，为党校的建设和发展提供坚强的政治保证和组织保证。

服务人民群众，密切党群干群关系。 认真解决群众反映强烈的突出问题，把问题是否切实得到解决和群众是否满意作为衡量先进性教育活动成效的重要标准。通过“群众评议机关”、“双联双带”等有效载体，以实实在在的行动，切实转变党校作风，服务基层，服务群众，让群众感受到党员的先进性和党的温暖。

省委决定、并报中共中央批准，王侠同志任中共陕西省纪律检查委员会委员、常委、书记。董雷同志不再担任中共陕西省纪律检查委员会书记、常委、委员职务。

中纪委副书记、国家监察部长李至伦前天（28日）晚上因病在北京病逝，享年六十五岁。

Point, Game, and Match,,, Nanheyangrouchuan.

If Shanghaiist has a payroll, Nanheyangrouchuan should be on it.

He/She has long been by far the best element of this blog.

Vegans are communist pussies.

This is a no brainer. This law needs to pass. The barbaric cruelty to our fur friends has gone on long enough!! We do not need to act like uncivilized barbarians which is exactly what these people do when killing them. They even get off on hearing the cries! Cats and dogs are our friends and do much not only for ones personal lives but they work with people in the hospital's, nursing homes, for the blind, and those that are incapable of getting everyday objects we take for granted. There are more benefit to teaching and learning to love our fur friends that butchering like cavemen! Compassion for the animals is growing more and more, animal rights groups are popping up here. This shows a turn for the better!

To eat a balanced diet one needs to only go healthy and become vegetarian or vegan. Times are changing and we need to change with it. Plus eating as a vegetarian many more people can be feed on grains and vegetables. After all you don't see people cutting up people for food because they are overpopulated.

We feed animals grain that hungry humans could be eating. So, switching to a plant-based diet is one way that we can show support for human rights. All the other more-discussed rights are based on the right not to starve.

It would be great if Shanghaiist did more to promote compassionate eating. Industrially produced meat is not the only thing available in Shanghai, but it does seem to get a lot of coverage on this site.

I dont think it will pass, I like eating dog in winter especially North China and when I go to Korea, who the hell these people think they are!!!!